I want to hear from those of you who are still undecided

Then don't bee-bop around here calling yourself a liberal. Or a Democrat, if that's how you think of yourself. And, if you are part of the "liberal" side of your political website, then the balance is screwed. I truly can't believe I'm reading some of this. I really can't.




Ruth Bader Ginsburg is 71
Sandra Day O'Connor is 74
John Paul Stevens is 84

What further reason do you need? Do you think Kerry is going to lay on his back, welcome al-Qaeda with open arms, and sing kum ba yah?? You think that Bush has a rational foreign policy? A rational domestic policy? That he is truly a "compassionate conservative?"

What's the use. I think of political beliefs as something you hold deeply, for years, because it's part of the core of your makeup. Part of what makes you, you. I guess some people can change it like a shirt.

 

Some people on both sides get so blinded by their political beliefs that they completely ingore logic and fail to even consider the other side may be right. Others are stuck in the middle and lean left on some issues and right on others and fell like neither party truly serves their interest and beliefs. These people are usually open minded and have to choose between the lesser of two evils based on the weight they give the issues most serious to them in each election. People who blindly serve either party are often closed minded and adopt an "I'm right, you're wrong, you're an idiot if you don't see it my way" attitude.

I applaud RM95 for judging the issues and canidates and making an informed decision on who he feels truly deserves his vote. I think this is a much better way of casting your vote compared to the numb masses who will walk in and punch a straight ticket.

If you change your mind on a canidate, party, or issues it doens't change your core makeup, it just shows you know how to use your mind and make a desicsion for yourself based on the facts as you see them.

 

Exactly. Up until 2002, I didn't think there was even an outside possibility of me voting for a Democrat. Circumstances change and the intelligent mind continues to evaluate information in order to make an informed decision.

IMO, blind partisanship is one of the major things wrong with this country.

 

Given that Saddam was a bad man, given his son no longer runs the Olympic infrastructure in Iraq, and given a whole host of other things that were bad and wrong and evil about Saddam's Iraq, I still do not believe that it was in the national interest of the United States to invade... no more then it is in our national interest to commit blood and treasure to dispose of any of the other numerous despotic regimes.

After WWII and the Cold War, we had it won... American ideas and ideals were triumphant... all we had to do was keep slapping singles and moving baserunners and eventually most of the rest of the world would come along.... now the game is in doubt because Mighty Bush swung for the fences and whiffed big time. Patience is not a sin and would have paid far greater dividends then our current course.

Think about where we would be if Afghanistan were our sole focus... the world would be in better shape, our alliances would be stronger, Al-Q and similar groups would not be as strong, Saddam would still be isolated, we probably wouldn't be pulling troops off the Korean Peninsula where a nuclear madman lives, and Bush would be up by 20 points.

Everything from 9/11 on has been tragedy and farce of the highest order.

 

So I'm "blind and close minded?" Thanks. I'm glad I was "blind and close minded" when I voted against Nixon in '72. And against Reagan in '80 and '84. And against Bush Senior in '88 and '92. And against Bush Junior in 2000. I had excellent reasons for casting those votes. It wasn't because I was a Democrat. It was because I was a liberal thinking American who wanted a country run by open minded people whose values approximated mine. I fail to see how this is any different than those who voted the other way, for their own reasons.

I don't think RM95 is an idiot. He just shouldn't paint himself as a liberal if he's going to vote for George W. Bush this Fall. He can say and do whatever he wants here. That's why this forum exists. And I can adjust my level of respect for someone based on what they post. That's something we all do. There are several conservatives here that I respect. There are some I don't. There are several liberals here I respect. There are some I don't. Now, I guess, there is one more.

 

Very well put.

And I would probably be planning on voting for him, too.

For me, this is everything after Afghanistan.

 

I applaud RM95 for his post. And I welcome the vote. I honestly don't think I could man up and do that if the shoe was on the other foot. I have much respect for him.


basso - stop posting.

 

You voted for Carter in 80 and you still think your are open-minded? I remember those previous 4 years and I find it hard to believe you'd want 4 more.

 

I've decided against Bush

Undecided on Kerry

really wish someone approaching a great leader were on the Ballot

Maybe I'll write in McCain and 200 million other ppl will come up with the same idea

 

It's rare in American History for potential presidents to be considered great leaders before they are elected. Our greatest, Lincoln, certainly was not perceived that way. FDR was primarily not Hoover. Jackson lost an election where he won the popular vote. About the only one you can say this about is Washington. Eisenhower was a great general, but not a great President... several others were like this as well.

 

I knew what Reagan brought to the table and I would make that vote again. Did I like Carter? No. Am I crazy about the Democratic Party's choice of Kerry to run this Fall? No. But, just as in 1980, except even more important for the country, in my opinion, it is a choice about the direction of the country and it's future. If you like what George W. Bush is doing, then vote for him. If you don't like what he is doing, and what he may do to the United States during a second term, then vote against him.

I don't think it's that complicated.

 

Deckard,

Apparently you took my post all wrong. In no way was my post directed to you or your political beliefs or you voting record. Point out one area where I singled out you or for that matter liberals or conservatives. I only quoted your message, and only a portion of it, because that was the one area of you post I wanted to address.

My main points being...

1. A lot of people are stuck in the middle and lean left on some issues and right on others and fell like neither party truly serves their interest and beliefs.

2.If you change your mind on a canidate, party, or issues it doens't change your core makeup, it just shows you know how to use your mind and make a desicsion for yourself based on the facts as you see them.

I wasn't saying You don't use your mind and make a decision for yourself but I doubt you would deny there are plenty of people on both sides that blindly follow a party with out educating themselves on the issues and the canidates.

Sorry if you took my post to heart and thought I was slinging poo at you and your beliefs. In no way was this the intent of this post. I'm not good at sling poo and I don't go around calling people here names directly or indirectly. Hope you see the true intent of my post.

VooDooPope

Just for kicks which of these 2 groups do you think I belong in becuase I don't consider myself a part of either.

 

Just going by the ol Gut....

 

Screw labels. I've voted for Bill Clinton, George W., and Bob Dole in my lifetime. I'm flirting with voting for both candidates this time around, but leaning towards Smarty Jones.

RM95 is an individual with a mind. That's more important than any label. None of us should feel we have to compromise our integrity to live up to a label of conservative, liberal or moderate.

Vote your conscience and tell everyone else to kiss your ass. Because that's what Jesus would do. Ok, just kidding on that last part.

 

Thanks, VooDooPope, for the clarification.

I really don't have you "pegged" one way or another. There are many of us here, like this Democrat, who have opinions that "go against the grain" of their "perceived place" in our BBS, D&D universe.

I frequently agree with some of the posters who decidedly fall on the conservative side of the political spectrum, because their take on certain things dovetails with mine. It may not seem that way, probably because the subjects discussed here, sadly, aren't all that broad. See any post by Mango on South Asia, for example, and you will find me putting my poor 2 cents in with agreement.

I am for a defense second to no country. I happen to believe Bush has weakened us in that regard with his actions invading and occupying Iraq. Just a couple of examples.

 

The first part shows that you use your mind to decide the facts important to you on the issues, and that's a good thing.

As for the second part I agree with you. I haven't made up my mind yet if I think changing to Kerry would help or hurt the issue. I feel this way about a lot of issues and that explains my still being undecided.

I plan on sitting back and watching the poo slingers sling it from the far left and far right and then try to pick the pieces of truth that land in the middle and make an educated, informed decision.

 

Well said, man.

 

So where do you expect a person like me to vote? I'm liberal on some things and conservative on others. Personally, I'm very happy with my place on the fence between one label and the other, and I adjust my vote acordingly. Like RM95 said, I don't believe Kerry would be all that better or worse than Bush, and going by that, I'd like to see Bush see this thing through to the end, whatever bumps in the road may arise.

 

That's right, going to hit all 50 states, 12 states a day,
no sleep, not a problem...going to be the greatest come from behind
[ falls asleep. ] Doole...15 percent tax cut...I love you, Marie Antoinette. Hey, you, Og, this is my cave, stay away from my mate. Og, I'll push you in the tar pit. The redcoats are coming. Oh, big bang, lifeless planet. Must climb out of primordial ooze. Use Dole's fins as legs. Hope these gills turn into lungs soon.

D-d-dole? Dole? DOOOOOOLE!





sorry for this irrelevant post, everytime I see Bob Dole's name, I always think of this classic Conan skit

 

Lynus, since when am I some "arbiter" of the political labels of the posters around here? RM95 has a very long history in Hangout (I've been lurking here since the summer of '98... Mango and Behad "had" me too frightened to register. for some stupid reason, I thought that if I registered, that I'd have to post. pretty silly, huh? ), and, because of that, I find his change of direction here astonishing.

The fact that, with his history, he could convince himself that 4 more years of George W. Bush is not going to have a seriously damaging effect on the country, quite frankly, blows my mind. That he writes for a political website, for which I assume he's supposed to have a location in the political spectrum, is just icing on the cake, one could say. I hope he portrays himself there as an Independent moderate, or something of the like, because he sure isn't a Liberal Democrat. Or a Liberal. Or maybe I've just misunderstood him all these years. If so, then, in the parlance of our times, my bad.

I'm a political junkie. I've said so many times, and I love talking politics. I've actually found this thread, and the one about the Houston smoking dustup, highly entertaining. RM95 has a pretty large profile here. I'm putting in my 2 cents about his "decision." Putting in my 2 cents is why I'm here.