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I don't want to be *that* poster, but...

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Hey Now!, Sep 3, 2015.

  1. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Did you just... use a 3-game sample size to suggest the end of a slump?...

    And yes, Lowrie's OPS is respectable - because he was scorching hot for three weeks in April before getting hurt. That was four months ago and has almost zero relevance right now, given what an outlier it was. His OPS since returning is .613. And he's now played in more games since returning than he did prior to being hurt, BTW.

    I mean... Jake Marisnick had a 1.043 OPS after April and a .964 OPS his last three games... I guess Springer can just stay in Corpus...

    Well, at least you've expanded the sample size to 16 games... BTW, his OPS in the 14 games prior to that was .641 and it's GASP! .608 in the last three games. Seems like that hot streak is over...

    I'm generally OK with Lowrie and Gattis being in the mix. I'm not even opposed to Valbuena being in it, either. What bothers me is that the track record - as well as, I'd argue, their ceiling - for all three is, well, average. These are not exceptionally good baseball players. They're not value-less, by any means - but not aggressively upgrading either/any of the positions - when the team has done so with other positions - just strikes me as inexplicable.

    If there was no precedent with Tucker and Correa, McCullers and Valaquez, I'd likely not jump into this echo chamber.

    Or they could be Carlos Correa, 2.0. Leaving them in the minors is the absolute worst way to find out...
     
  2. sealclubber1016

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    With Tucker back, I don't expect Carter to get any PA in non blowout situations. If he does, it's a mistake. With the roster's expanded he isn't blocking anybody.
     
  3. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Then he shouldn't be on the active roster, plain and simple. He WILL get pinch-hits, he will get at least one more start before the season is over... and if there's an injury, or somebody just isn't feeling well, he'll be asked to fill in.

    I just don't see the point of being 90% "all-in" for a playoff push, and playing that 10% "40-man issue/service-time issue" card and holding guys back.... I know that's not what they're publicly saying at this point, and I do find merit in not having a guy's first MLB experience be in the heat of a pennant race... but this team needs better potential options at 1B NOW (and has needed one since the ASB).

    In the long-run, I don't expect it to cost them the division or a playoff spot... but it still is a recognized weakness where I don't feel they maximized all possibilities.
     
  4. sealclubber1016

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    Yes, because Marisnick and Lowrie have the same career track record. Benching a proven player because he is in a slump is stupid.

    And no, him and Gattis aren't great hitters, but they are solid (based on track record anyhow) Throwing a complete unknown into the mix, when you have someone already there is a risk. If we were still bad I would agree with you, upside> good, not great, but we need to win now. Playing young players is a risk.

    Correa is a beast, don't compare him to anybody. Tucker came up when Springer had a concussion, McCullers and Velazquez were injury/scrub replacements. None of them unseated proven players.
     
  5. sealclubber1016

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    Carter isn't the reason White or Reed aren't here. If the Astros could deactivate Carter without releasing him, I'm sure they would.

    I don't disagree with you in principle, White or Reed should be here. But I don't think holding them back for Rule 5 considerations is as indefensible as others.
     
  6. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    At this point, what do you honestly expect they're going to get for him? We know they're not going to pay him what they paid him this season.... and I don't see any team trading for him at his arbitration rate.

    If Carter was showing something... anything... even just providing a 0 WAR value, I could see their point.

    Its just a wasted opportunity... where I don't feel the rule 5 opportunity cost is that drastic (with possible WS aspirations on the line). They're going to find a way to protect the guys they want to protect... while exposing guys they don't really like (like Deshields... who at the end of the day, provided more value than Carter did).
     
  7. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    With all the talk of Reed & White, after signing that big deal big deal for someone who never played a MLB game, safe to say Jonathan Singleton doesn't really have a future here in Houston? Or just another AAAA type player?

    Not gonna say he didn't necessarily get a fair shot (but...) because he had 362 PAs at the big league level last year and he wasn't great. Another cup of coffee this year, still wasn't great but maybe slightly better than the year before.

    -Carter wasn't an absolute zero last year but now he is.
    -You're now plugging-and-playing at 1B with Valbuena, Lowrie & Gonzalez.
    -Either one of the young guys above will get the job next year or trade/FA acquisition.

    So where does Jon stand?

    As for dumpster fire that is their 1B/3B/DH situation, it's been that way for much of the season and they've "gotten by". Why would you expect things to change now? Because rosters expanded? Because they're in a pennant race? They've been in one all year. Cut Chris Carter? They haven't yet so why do we expect them to now?

    White & Reed - Evan already wrote the article on it. 40 man roster issues in the offseason. I mean, I don't agree but it is what it is.

     
    #27 J.R., Sep 3, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  8. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Yes, I think everybody realizes what the "why" is (service-time issues also included, as I doubt either of those guys are on the opening day roster either).... its just at what cost?

    Playing Carter till the second-half was the expected move based on his streaky "track record" (which I thought was an anomaly as is, but still had to see it through).

    Its just a missed opportunity... one that really wouldn't be a gamble by any means, based on the production they're currently getting.

    As pro-active and forward-thinking as this front-office is, they're also very fixed in their ways... sometimes to a fault.
     
  9. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Singleton is hitting .172 through 400 pa's. Chris Carter thinks he stinks.
     
  10. CrashDavis

    CrashDavis Member

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    Wrong. just be in org.
     
  11. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Lowrie's career OPS+ is 102; he is the poster child for average. He has value; sure. He should play, of course. But... he's average and, more specifically, he's been downright terrible for more than a month as the division lead shrinks. How long a leash do you give Jed Lowrie to return to being... average?

    Is this season not worth taking a risk? As Nick said far more eloquently than me: you've, more or less, gone all in... why stop now?

    Yes, Correa is a beast - a beast they didn't expect to be here until late this year (after they were eliminated), possibly even next year. But Lowrie got hurt, the tandem of Villar/Gonzalez sucked and... they took a risk.

    And you don't jump a guy from AA - and then have him stick for four months - because of an injury. Sure, that was the impetus. But if that's all it was, they could have brought up Grossman, or any other 7-10-day fill-in. No, they brought up Tucker because, again: they were taking a risk. Same with McCullers and Velasquez. Both jumped from AA, over players with either previous ML experience, or that were considered "more ready."

    It just feels like... they - I don't know. Reed and White have earned a look and, more importantly, fill a need - every bit as much as Correa, Tucker, McCullers and/or Velasquez did.
     
    #31 Hey Now!, Sep 3, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  12. right1

    right1 Member

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    If they don't I believe it may eventually cost them the division, wild card, alcs, world series or all the above. Check out the avg.and obp. Of every pinch hitting option we have on the current roster. It is pitiful.
     
  13. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Mr. Carter better get off his high horse. ;)

    Yeah, Singleton's brief major league career is worse than Chris Carter this year. YEESH!
    Former top prospect to eventual throw-in in a trade.
     
  14. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Fairly obvious, at least to me, they don't think much of him. You don't call-up a prospect and then have them sit; Singleton would have been far better off playing everyday in Fresno. And this was when the stench of Chris Carter was starting to waft...

    Frankly, it should have changed, at the very least, a month and a half ago. I don't really care about the specific roster machinations; I'm more concerned that they seemingly have an upgrade available at a position of need and are choosing not to pursue it.

    Here we go... They weren't conservative with Correa or Tucker. And let's not forget: they handed the 1B job to Singleton last year and promoted a 21-year old Santana. Granted, the team was terrible last year - but an organizational approach is - or should be - absolute. Either you're conservative or you're not; record of the ML club shouldn't dictate that.
     
  15. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    Wow Carter is have a bad year but he is still 3rd on the team in HRs and RBIs even though he's having a bad year lets check ever year there is a Astro that as a bad year so let it go about Carter it's just a bad year .
     
  16. conquistador#11

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    what's wrong with a dumpster fire if it keeps the front office cozy and warm?

    though august, i was hoping last year's carter would show up. he never did. one of the kids should get a chance, even if it's done on matchups.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    What's the rationale/risk? I don't believe a single top prospect is eligible for the rule 5 draft (IIRC).
     
  18. crose

    crose Contributing Member
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    Yeah, dude. That's what I posted.
     
  19. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

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    Wasn't almost all of those HRs and RBIs from the first half? I wonder what happened to him? I forget...was he playing regularly in the first half? This may be what happens when you sit Carter out for too long.
     
  20. Airdough

    Airdough Member

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    Not to burst the gloom and doom bubble but the division lead has only shrunk one game since August 1st. Since then, the Rangers have won at a .690 clip (better than the overall winning percentage for the Cardinals) while the Stros have been sub.500. Yes both trends could continue but things tend to even out. It could be the Angels turn this month to kick it into gear. Also, the Mariners have a better record than Houston since August 1st so having a tough series with them wasn't out of the ordinary.
     

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