You're not paying attention to what I am saying here. Of course his TO's are a problem. Look, you say a lot of contradictory things in this thread. It's not about being right, it's just that you complain we're saying the same thing but frankly I am not sure what you say because it seems to be one thing in part of a post and now another here or there. So I'll drop it because it's not worth debating about. The point is that I think we should keep putting the ball into Dwight's hands into the post. Why you ask if he turns it over so much? Here's why - I think he will eventually learn to pass it out and cut down on the TO's. A lot of those TO's are charges, from him bulldozing which obviously doesn't work out so well for him against strong players / floppers or whatever. A lot of them are the guards dropping down and stripping him. These are avoidable and he can learn to avoid them. That's probably 75% of his to's right there. But it will take time. Think of this as investment. We're not going to win a ring this year regardless - this team is still too green and may have a player missing. So invest in Howard and let him keep improving. Last game was bad - but overall he has shown a lot of progress. But he just tries to force it at times. He does fine when he just doesn't care about establishing himself all that much. But against OKC and Chi - he wanted to prove himself and live up to being the best center - that actually backfired and hurt him. He has to adjust to the defense and not try to bull his way through by being "the man". I think once he makes that adjustment, a lot of his TO's will go away. But it takes time for someone to get that, especially when they are EXPECTED to be the man. You have to let Howard grow as a person, not just as a baller. And here in Houston, he's in the right environment to grow. He's very much a kid at heart and he's still growing and maturing in other ways. The leap Howard has to make is more mental than physical or skill wise. And I think he will make it - it will click in him. But everyone has to go through that process. But he has to realize it on his own. And for that, you have to keep passing him the ball and let him keep struggling until the light bulb goes off and it all starts to connect. Give it time!
Let me make this clear since struggle to understand. Irregardless of the title or what you may think. This is what I believe in a nutshell. Howards offensive foouls in the post hurt this team. Howards over dribbling in the post hurt this team. Howard's inability to make good decisions in the post hurt this team. Howards turnovers in the post hurt this team. That's my point. Read all of my posts and you will see that. If you want to call him a good post player and overlook all of his turnovers I don't give a ****. I just think it's obvious he slows down the offense just like Harden did last year when he ISo'd too much and his stupid turnovers and his propensity to whine afterwards which isn't really my point in this thread but it is also a problem IMO hurts the team. If you disagree with that than say it. You are right we do differ although you only made that clear in your last post. You want to keep feeding Howard as frequently or more so he gets better. And I want to work on his game and if he can't change some than quit feeding him the ball as much. Someone said on here it is necessary evil and agree with that but I want to believe he can play smarter. Only after 10 years not sure he can. It is clear you have changed your position from saying this is a ridiculous thread although you will probably come back and disagree with that. I am and have been very clear how I feel about Howard throughout this thread. I never said he sucked and never said I want to stop going to him in the post. I never said we should start Asik. My point is and has been his turnovers hurt the team. His turnovers make him less than good in the post. If he can cut those turnovers down he will help this team much more. That's it. If you think that is ridiculous so be it. But I am also done.
We've seen Howard dominate in the paint this year more often then not. I am willing to put up with his turnovers when he's got it going just like we're all willing to put up with hardens turnovers when he's got it going just like we're all willin to put up with lins turnovers when he's got it going (inb4 shortest leash).
It's not about what you're willing to put up with. We do not get to make the decisions. I only wish Howard would work harder on his decision making and realize when pounding the ball down low is not a good decision. There are clear signs. Players with length and some physicality are bad matches for him. When he holds theball too long and waits for the double to come over that almost never works. He needs to pass more often and quicker.
I thought Yao turned it over too much. Howard is a turnover machine even after he has secured the ball from the post entry pass.
If only they would let centers bang in the post...Dwight would be A LOT better. Thanks to stretch 4s though now playing as centers, it's just not allowed. You have to be a finesse center to be a good low post center in today's NBA (and this is ALL because of the refs...they reward post flopping every single game...) and this is a big reason why the big intimidating center is dying out. Now most centers are lean, quick, agile...well most good ones. The big plodding centers with huge shoulders and such are a thing of the past. Dwight would dominate if they let him bang in the post as it is meant to be. Maybe one day the NBA refs will smart up and stop rewarding these fraud centers for flopping in the paint.
I absolutely agree. If dwight was allowed to pound the paint like Shaq did early in his career. Even players like Barkley dominated down low back then. I would add the thing I neglected and you reminded me of is the addition of a stretch 4. I think a true stretch 4 would help Howard. He still has to pass more often but once a stretch 4 beats the other team a few times they will be less inclined to leave him. Right now they usually cheat off the 4 to double Howard. They may still do that even with a stretch 4 if Howard won't or can't find the open man. But I think he can.
He is good in the low block, he isn't great. he has a stinker and every forgets the great post games he has had. He will get better over time.
I wish I shared your optimism, but he's been in the league 9 years and has been a high turnover player the entire time. I don't think he is going to change at this point, although I'd like to be wrong.
He's a freak of nature in terms of athleticism, a nice guy. But he's not a leader, not a good offensive player.
The only problem I have with Dwight offensively is the time he takes for his post move. He allows way too much time for the double team to come and although hes not bad at passing it back out to the guards, he sometimes trys to be cool and spins the other way (from the incoming double team) and bricks a shot.
I am going to skip all the person stuff because I just don't have the mental energy to deal with it. Suffice it to say, yes, we should keep feeding Howard the ball. Of course we should keep trying to teach him and all that. It's ridiculous to suggest anyone thinks otherwise. But you will lose him as a player if you try to force him to be a player he doesn't want to be. Reason Phil Jackson is so successful is because he gives his players the ability to feel the game and learn on their own instead of restricting them. You have to let Howard figure it out on his own. That's basically what I am saying. Coaches can show him what to do in situations, but he has to make the decision. And right now, he wants to power it through. At some point he'll figure it out. This might be his 10th year in the league, but it really is his first where he is getting to be the kind of player he wants to be. Where he doesn't have friction with his coach.
Howard is not clutch like harden, he helps the team win games by hitting big shots in the 4th, getting to the free thow line, playmaking for teammates, he get 30-40 points like its nothing. Howard can't be trusted late in games, you can even say asik & setting picks is more needed when the game is on line late in the 4th. Howard causes the team to miss so many plays by freethrows not falling, turnovers, & missing shots. can't win a championship like that
Listen Sweet Lou I put some thought in this thread when I wrote it. I got annoyed that you wrote it all off as ridiculous. I got annoyed because I recognize you as not being an idiot on this board and now have to explain a point that in my mind seems so logical. I like Howard. I am glad he is part of this team. I think we can play better if we use Howard smarter. Of course I can't include every point in my OP on how to do that but IMO, and this all most of us have here, Dwight Howard's turnovers hurt this team. I am not necessarily advocating less touches in the paint for Howard but I am absolutely advocating more PNR's and he pass quicker out of the post. If he can't do that in the near future than yes I would like to see less touches. I am not advocating we quit teaching him. I am not saying he sucks in the low post. If you think that you are arguing with yourself. I am advocating that he learn to make better decisions. Unlike you I am not sure that will happen. I want it to happen and wish it would happen but don't know if it will. I also do believe many people have worked hard with Howard over the course of his ten years in the league. Even Hakeem has worked with him previously. Howard is not Hakeem and while I have seen him adapt to a degree some of his quicker moves mostly Howard hasn't adapted much of Hakeem's game. DMo has shown more improvement with Hakeem;s tutelage than Howard. So that suggest to me maybe Howard will never get it. Doesn't mean I don't want him to or don't hope he will or even that he won't get it sometime down the road but I have my doubts. But do not twist this in to a hate howard post or thread. I am very clear on how I feel about Howard. If I have not expressed that well enough than my apologess but let me be clear now. I think he is a plus. I believe he can help us win a championship. I believe he can do some things well in the post and others not so well. I think his turnovers in the low post are hurting this team. I also I want him to pass quicker out of the paint and want him used in more pnr's. If you want to continue to call that ridiculous go right ahead. I was annoyed by your original comment. Now I am more annoyed with myself for arguing with you. So this thread is ridiculous and my point is ridiculous if that makes you feel better. End of discussion for me.
Softer rules don't help Dwight's offense, but his biggest problem is his shooting. He makes nice moves sometimes, then bricks the shot... horrible touch. He gets pushed away from the basket too easily at times which adds to his biggest problem. Dwight doesn't get many turnovers from players flopping, maybe 1/game. They mainly come from 1) bad post moves -traveling -careless fumbling of the ball 2) strips - getting the ball stolen 3) careless passes - you can see the steal coming from a mile away Hopefully he can develop better touch with his shot and further develop his footwork. He's made improvement this season, so there's hope.
Actually, I think THIS is one of the biggest problems for Dwight. Dwight "settles" for position in the post. If Dwight gets deep in the post and gets the ball, he's a one man wrecking crew. The problem with Dwight is he'll fight for position, get pushed to the outside of the block, and when the pass comes in he'll try to post up *anyway* instead of passing the ball out immediately and re-posting. There is a HUGE difference between being 6 feet from the basket and 10 feet from the basket, and Dwight tries to force the issue WAY too much from 10 feet out. The great post up players had a great feel for position. If they didn't like their position when they got the ball, they didn't try to force it. They simply passed it out, danced to get a few more steps in and called for the ball again. Dwight being so far out hurts him in a ton of ways. It forces him to shoot longer mid-range shots, it makes him cover large distances to get close to the basket for dunks and hooks, and more importantly because he's covering a larger distance it shortens the distance that help defenders need to cover to double him. Those extra couple steps gives an opposing defense more time to adjust, help and strip the ball. Dwight needs to take the ball deeper in the post and make *FAST* decisions. IE, catch and go. While the dribble dream shake is great and all Dwight is no Dream. It's something he should be using selectively, not something he should be trying every other play. What I would like to see Dwight do more of is catch, one dribble running hook/dunk or catch and go up to dunk. That said, Dwight's post game is definitely a work in progress. I just hope that he continues to improve and doesn't overuse it at the wrong times.
Agree with the basis of this thread. He's not a dominant or great offensive player, he's good. But not great.
