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Howard > Asik not true in our team

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by totti_c, Jan 17, 2014.

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  1. cjtaylorpt

    cjtaylorpt Member

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    What? We have our best record in 5 years and our bench play is down due to injuries.
     
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  2. basketballholic

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    Most fans are not willing to accept what the problem with the offense and defense is. They simply look at box scores and see some double digits numbers and think everything is great with one player and terrible with another. But that's not the case.

    Basketball is a team game. It truly is a team game. Yes, isos are a part of the game and yes you have to have superstar players to win. But that's true for any professional sport. You still have to have a team, a group of guys whose talents fit together and whose individual weaknesses are masked by other's strengths.

    We are now 3-5 since December 1, 2013 against teams playing over .500. We are 6-6 against teams playing over .500 since Asik went out of the starting lineup. And we are 9-8 for the season against teams with winning records including of course that long since dead first 8 games that Omer was starting and playing major minutes for us. We're 6-8 against the other top 8 Western Conference teams and we are 4-6 against those teams since Asik left the starting lineup. We're getting beat on a consistent basis by teams playing over .500 ball and those teams we're gonna see in the playoffs if we make it. We're only 2 1/2 games from being OUT of the playoffs in the West. And Denver and Memphis are coming.

    Those are the facts, ladies and gentlemen. Take 'em or leave 'em.

    If we don't get a solid rotation of big men we are in danger of missing the playoffs. You guys keep talking about we need an upgrade to our perimeter defense, we need better perimeter shooters, yada, yada, yada. While that is a true and valid point it is not the crux of the matter. This team gets consistently splattered when Dwight goes off the court and when he is on the court we are nothing more than mediocre against other winning teams. We have no backup 5 (just like last year) and our offense gets convoluted against the better teams that have the ability to make adjustments and play playoff style defense. If we don't upgrade the big man rotation this is what we are going to see for the balance of the season...a lower echelon playoff team that struggles against other playoff teams and could actually miss the playoffs if just a few more minor misfortunes come its way.
     
  3. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    This team is 5 games better this year with Howard as opposed to Asik so far this year.

    Myth busted.
     
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  4. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Guy has one bad game (due to having to play 1 on 2 vs. 2 elite defensive centers) and all the sudden Howard is worse than Omer F-ing Asik?????

    I loved Omer last year, but geez....give me a break guys... seriously. You need to STOP thinking that Charles and Shaq know what the F they are talking about, and you need to go back and watch games last year of "Butterfingers Magoo" Omer to realize how much worse Omer was on offense last year, and how he's really not any better at all on the defensive end.

    Sure he stays home more and doesn't go for blocks, but there is something about Dwight's shot blocking that has more of an impact than Omer's stay at home plan. Dwight's shot blocking ability completely changes teams gameplan at attacking the rim. The only problem is other players aren't helping block out when Dwight goes for a block leading to a ton of offensive rebounds. That's a problem, but something that could be easily fixed.

    On offense, when is the last time Omer went for 35 points, and sprinkled in 19 rebounds and 3 blocks???

    As always the peanut gallery here is being WAAAAYYYY too knee jerk about one freaking game, and being allowed to have their chains jerked by the idiots at TNT that Dwight isn't a great player, and lastly playing with their revisionist history that a former player was much, much better than they really were.
     
  5. basketballholic

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    We have only played 17 games against teams with winning records. And this is the year of the tank. There are more teams tanking this year than ever before. So that 5 game differential......means zilch.
     
  6. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    I'm with you here. You have to use Howard better, not replace him with a lesser talent. Howard+Jones>Asik+Aldridge or whatever the OP is dreaming up.

    Howard can do things that other big man just can't. Our team does nothing to make him successful at those things. If you have Dwight in the low post and he gets double-teamed, he'll make the assist. If he's left one on one, he usually can get to the basket. What do we do? Crowd him and set him up in ways where he's stepping away from the basket.

    What we need to do? Force the pass as soon as Dwight gets low position and dictate to other teams how they'll have to defend it. Right now we are trying to take what the defense gives us and that's not working. Especially in the second halves of games.

    Dwight can't hit a free throw. So f-cking what. Neither could Wilt:
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chambwi01.html
    Neither could shaq:
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html

    And those guys won championships because they knew that if they kept pounding the ball inside, the other team would run out of fouls.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/fChyhjBtc5I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Watch the above. Watch how they force passes inside. You force the defense to sink in to defend Shaq and he never puts it on the ground, he either puts it up or passes it out if it's a double team. He's never really that open, his teammates just trust that he'll go get the ball. There is nothing about Dwight that tells me he can't do this.

    Yes, Dwight is a smaller post man. Yes, he's not as strong as Shaq. But he's twice as athletic and just as intimidating. Look at the space around the free throw line when they give Shaq the ball. Imagine what Chandler, Lin and Harden could do with that.

    No more sissy basketball. This team needs to play hard nosed and it starts by forcing the ball inside at every opportunity.
     
  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    That's all stuff I agree with, but I dont think you realize how difficult it is to truly upgrade the big rotation right now to where it would need to be to be an "elite championship level big front line." It would take (at the very least) a Paul Millsap type of big right now to really take the rotation where it needs to go and the fact is.... NO TEAM is giving up that kind of player to the Rockets right now.

    I hope they do, but facts are facts. (by all reports)The Rockets tried like hell to get Millsap from Atlanta, and even tried to get freaking mediocre Brandon Bass from the Celtics and couldn't even get that deal done (and luckily that crap deal fell apart).

    Jones is showing promise as an elite prospect, but I do agree he is still a matchup problem right now on the offensive end with Dwight. However with every game he plays, and every solid performance he keeps bringing night after night, the more his value increases across the league, and the more LESS likely it is that Morey settles on just any Jason Smith type of short term upgrade because the loss of value in Terrence Jones would be a killer to where the Rockets would want to be either in being able to put together a mega trade for a long term upgrade, or the upgrade Jones will bring in the future if he keeps improving and upgrades parts of his game that will complement Dwight & their gameplan better in the future.

    Right now in the short term this year, it looks like best case scenario might be to actually rely on Asik getting back to support the bench brigade, and maybe looking to snag a Patrick Patterson type as a situational stretch 4 at the deadline or after. Maybe they can make that mega deal we all want for a truly elite PF, maybe not, but right now it doesn't look likely. Looks like Morey might have to just piece together something with duct tape the second half of the season, and keep on grooming Jones for the future, and letting the coaches know that they need to try like hell to get this guy to shoot the ball better.
     
    #47 dobro1229, Jan 17, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  8. Deniz

    Deniz Member

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    stats can't show how important a player is to the team.
    he played tough defence and did all the dirty work.

     
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    LOL... what does the defense look like when Howard leaves the game?
     
  10. ItalianRocket

    ItalianRocket Member

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    I would take a Asik+LMA or Asik+KLove frountcourt over Dwight +Jones all day any day, you are seriously overrating the **** out of Dwigh and TJones
     
  11. cjtaylorpt

    cjtaylorpt Member

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    At this pace, we are 7 games better with Howard.
     
  12. DaonlyLA

    DaonlyLA Member

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    Rockets fans so wishy washy... Let's go back to being the 14th pick in the draft.. Smh hating on Harden and Howard. Without them what do we have? Worrying out Ft's when he does a lot more than most...
     
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  13. Play07

    Play07 Member

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    you are overrating howard, he has had plenty of chances to pass out the post this season when he didn’t, last when lin hit that shot we were down 7 that we went back to howard lin was wide open for a 3 howard did not pass the ball and got blocked by ibaka, then the game changed from there.
     
  14. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    It's the society we live in. I say most people in their 20's have zero patience. They didn't care about the team as much 3 years ago, they expect a team to contend immediately and look to blow it up after a bad loss.

    Wushu washy society.
     
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    Pretend this statement is true... it'd be true of the Lakers last year. They weren't maximizing Howard. Or Gasol. D'antoni was inept. If you cant find a way to use Howard you're not a great coach.
     
  16. amak316

    amak316 Member

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    Howard is better than Omer and is the best player on our team. The Rockets will end the season with a better record than last year and will only develop better chemistry. The reason people are disappointed is because expectations were too high.

    The fact of the matter is that we upgraded the second best position on a playoff team instead of plugging a weakness. The improvement was never going to be huge. If we can find a way to get fair value for Omer and plug a leak we will be a contender.

    Unfortunately who could have foreseen Omer having such a cancerous attitude and driving down his own market value with amateur hour tactics. You'd think he'd understand he's just one year away from a contract year.
     
  17. basketballholic

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    I agree with everything you wrote above except for one thing. I do realize how difficult it is to truly upgrade the big rotation. I have never said or implied that it was easy. Any major trades in the NBA usually take a long time to develop and then they fall out of the sky without warning a lot of times. So, I'm not saying Morey can simply flip a couple guys and fix this. But I am making very clear that for us to win a championship this year we are going to have to significantly upgrade the big man rotation.
     
  18. mfastx

    mfastx Member
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    We were 21-21 this time last year, lol. Is this thread a joke?

    Last year we actually had somewhat of a bench too. Douglas = Brooks, Delfino >>> Garcia, Patterson > Casspi, Asik > No Asik...

    We've basically downgraded at every single position except for the starting SG, SF and C and we have a much better record. We've had the 5th toughest schedule in the league.

    9th in the league in defense this year as opposed to 16th.. 5th in offense and 6th in the league in offense last year.

    And the free throws aren't even that much better. Asik was a whole 3 percentage points better than Howard at the free throw line last year.

    Our team as a whole is weaker, but the center position is much, much stronger.
     
  19. Play07

    Play07 Member

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    you answered your own question buddy, people are not saying ASIK is better even though he a better defender and rebounder.... theyre saying what the team would have been if we signed other players with the $22 mill.
     
  20. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Some one please pull our record half point of last season.
     

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