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How Texas politicians destroyed Union Station

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by da1, Mar 10, 2013.

  1. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Contributing Member
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    yeah, I would say it's more of a cultural thing. Americans love their cars and we have lots of space.
     
  2. Johndoe804

    Johndoe804 Member

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    I'm not seeing that argument anywhere.
     
  3. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    post 14. That was his response to my point about how we need freeways in Houston
     
  4. da1

    da1 Member

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    Don't put words in my mouth. You dismiss rail as a solution here and act as if freeways are God, I simply pointed out that there were streetcars in Houston and Galveston long before freeways were ever here. In fact, freeway right of way for the Gulf Freeway led to the demise of Houston Electric in the end. Of course freeways have helped out the city immensely, but they've been taken overboard and soon there will be a collision course of gridlock that could have been avoided if cronies like Bob Lanier didn't prevent any form of public transit to succeed.
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Freeways are a necessity in Houston.

    Rail is just a nice to have
     
  6. da1

    da1 Member

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    Expanding freeways at this point is absolutely pointless. Congestion will not decrease, and pollution will only increase. And you are a total hypocrite with your "cost analysis." The $1 billion katy freeway expansion ended up costing $2.8 billion, almost triple the budgeted price. But it's for roads so who cares right :rolleyes:
     
  7. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    The Katy Freeway is awesome now, and congestion is greatly decreased. This has spurred huge amounts of new construction of office buildings out West, due to the reduced congestion. Interesting that you pick that as your example.
     
  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I am not surprised by this story at all. People like to believe that our current auto dependent development and infrastructure was a result of the free market when it was heavily driven by politicians and government.
     
  9. da1

    da1 Member

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    Congestion has not been eliminated. Also this expansion was done with enormous right of way seizure, which ONE NEIGHBORHOOD used as an excuse to stop the university line. Conveniently, you ignore the side effect of pollution to the air we breathe, which is encouraged by freeway expansion. Also you are using the exact same argument people use for rail, transit oriented development. Why do you think the new Grand Parkway is being built? Two words: Bob Lanier.
     
  10. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Rail is powered by electricity generated primarily by burning fossil fuels...

    and again -- you must have freeways in Houston -- it's a necessity to move people, cargo and emergency vehicles around. Rail is just an expensive luxury, and tries to apply a "me-too" copy-cat strategy to transportation. You're trying to implement a solution (rail) that works in dense cities that were built up before the invention of the automobile (e.g., NYC, Paris). Houston is a spread out city and therefore requires another solution.
     
  11. da1

    da1 Member

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    Istanbul is a spread out city across two continents but they are still expanding their rail system at a frantic pace. Mexico City is another "spread out" city with a comprehensive rail system. I can keep going. Every world class city has rail. There is a reason.
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    hahaha -- Istanbul installed their first train line in the 1800s and is one of the largest cities in the world

    Mexico City has over 20 million people in the area.

    not good comparisons.

    "me too copy-cat" strategies need thought and logic behind them, not just "hey Paris has rail, so must Houston!"
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    very shortsighted thinking. the rail is a blessing on game day and for people who work in the med center. the fulton northside track is gonna get high usage, its already improving the surrounding area

    improving the surrounding area is key. and when the east side line is up through harrisburgh i will be hitting the mexican bars down there
     
  14. da1

    da1 Member

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    Istanbul is doing a massive train expansion. Not only did they install a METRO on the Asia side for the first time, they are also making a tunnel across the bosphorus and revamping their two commuter rail lines to be METRO as well. Take a good look at the transit map, it is a huge swath of land that will be covered. And Mexico City, the same can be said because it is a sprawling metropolis, like Houston. But since we are TEXANS and independent by gawd we don't need none of them trains! We wanna drive in our cars everywhere! We want freedom (even though freedom is the option of having good transit or not). Houston is 100 years behind most big cities in the world in terms of public transit. Once the old dinosaurs die off then finally we will make some progress. When gas hits $5 a gallon, or even higher people will be wishing they had other ways to get around.
     
  15. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    "me too" strategy is all you cling to. You try to say that everybody else has it, so why not us. Then you tell us that congestion will doom us. Yawn. Please argue based on fact and reason. Right now you're just an emotional rail fanboy who just wants it because others have it. Think more critically.
     
  16. da1

    da1 Member

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    Your tired old argument. You're a sucker because you've fallen hook like and sinker for what GM wanted. Here's a thought our rail gets the most ridership of any rail line in the country per mile. That should tell you something. If an effective rail transit system is built people will ride it period.
     
  17. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    lol "per mile"

    and again you ignore costs

    tell me how many more people is the rail transporting vs. the bus lines that used to run along the same streets? ...was the cost worth it?
     
  18. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Not only do non-collapsible roads take a lot of time and money to build, having millions of cars traverse them for years on end causes new damage and deterioration, which also needs to fixed. Boo-ya-ka-sha!
     
  19. da1

    da1 Member

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    We could have built a great rail system for less than the cost of the entire Katy freeway expansion. And those roads will need maintenance within 25-30 years which will cost hundreds of millions more. Why do the costs of your road projects not matter to you?
     
  20. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    because they are a necessity and not a luxury, as I've said more than once already
     

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