How much hate do Muslims deal with?

You guys need to take your quarrel to another thread.

 

Yeah I stopped reading at the "five years ago" stuff. Come on, guys, it's true that there is a danger of not giving a crap about the actual thread topic. . . .

 

Cut the condescending bull****. These things weren't happening as often six years ago to where maybe some of them could seem like isolated instances. At least it seemed that way to me. Probably because I wasn't reading the D&D as much :grin:

Are you really trying to chastise me for changing my opinion after new information was elucidated to me?

No. It did not take thousands. No reason to go into hyperbole to try to categorize me as a bad person. It did take some more instances of the same things happening though.

I agree. As we've talked about many times over the years.

I think there's a leap of logic here and that question you asked me to be honest with myself about has little to no value or meaning. I do agree that opinion is not an outlier in Islam and that it is a huge issue at this point in time.

No.

I never defended Mathloom explicitly stating that anyone should "live in fear for their life" at any point.

That's simply a slanderous lie quite frankly.

Six years ago, we went through my position in that thread quite thoroughly I believe. I recall us coming to some understanding of the other's opinions (none of which were disgusting) or something of that sort.

Regardless, I've already said that I agree that if (I didn't read that full thread again so I don't know, but i'll take it that you did and take your word for it) Mathloom said that, he's just as pathetic as FTW. And, it's evident I never defended Mathloom explicitly stating that anyone should "live in fear for their life" so trying to paint me as a biased hypocrite is disingenuous at best. Using talking points from six years ago makes it plain stupid.

Even if any of that were true (which it's not) it's still interesting that you two are going to such lengths to deflect criticism of what he said. Disgust in regards to FTW stands. I sincerely hope that neither of you harbor that sort of mentality internally. FTW already proved some of what the OP is trying to get at with that sort of mindset.

Also, my expecting an apology is certainly more warranted than you expecting an apology every time you are labeled as an obsessed Islamophobe.

 

I have a student named Osama for the second semester now, about 20 years old, from Saudi. You can imagine what a warm welcome he's getting as a foreign student here.

The three Muslim students killed over a parking space was not so long ago.

"Welcome to the U.S.A.! You piece of ****. Now go home and tell everyone how great we are."

 

This thread could be summarized as follows:

Muslims get a lot of hate nowadays. Some Muslims deserve it. It is probably the case that the Muslims who receive the brunt of it are not the ones who deserve it.

There are also people of other religions who have to deal with hate.

Muslims (especially in Muslim countries) are often not tolerant of other religions. Many are hateful towards them in fact.

Some questions of ethical relativism/universalism/utilitarianism/etc come into discussion and the average joe can't figure out whether to hate Muslims or not.

There you go. Thread in a nutshell.

 

They were happening - Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc. Van Gogh had been murdered. Death threats agains Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Etc. etc.

No, I commended you for that.

How did I categorize you as a bad person? I said that saying you have learned is respectable and that that is more than can be said about many others.

What I meant with "be honest with yourself" is that we in the West tend to make excuses. We tend to assume that what should not be cannot be - we tend to not take certain learnings about Muslim attitudes such as the Pew polls seriously because they seem so crazy that we think they cannot even be true.

Here are some more quotes from that thread:

The San Bernardino shooter, for instance, wasn't poor or uneducated. And he was American.

Yep, it's the religion.

I didn't even remember that you are a Muslim.

Clearly, something I said that you thought was "unbelievable" back then is something you agree with now.

Another post you made back then:

Quite shocking actually that you found that a cartoonist and someone who tried to murder someone are morally equal. I believe you retracted that statement later in that thread, but you still kept defending Mathloom.

See here:

Explanation: Yes, thinking and believing that a cartoonist should not have to live in fear for the rest of his life over a cartoon makes my thinking on that better than Mathloom's. You disagreed at the time and defended Mathloom, as evidenced in this post I just quoted. You were definitely more nuanced than Mathloom, but you kept referring to the cartoonist as an ass and you kept defending Mathloom, although you did not agree explicitly that the cartoonist should live in fear for the rest of his life. By initially saying that he was "equally an *******" as the attempted axe murderers and by repeatedly expressing your anger about him, you certainly seemed to represent the Muslim mainstream.

 

This Is hesaid shesaid mathloomsaid bickering is getting annoying, especially with mathloom not even around these parts.

 

1) Eh, you can say that fcchowd and I have somewhat similar views on Islam at this point. You and I have pretty much equal opinion of political Islam.

2) I thought the cartoonist was an ass because I felt like it's not a (in a civilized society) morally acceptable thing to purposely do things to attack the core values of others. Someone in that thread brought up how it's been done to Jesus for years now. I replied that I found that reprehensible as well.

Me thinking he's an ass in no way correlates to thinking he should "fear for his life"

Later in that thread, as you mentioned, I definitely retracted that statement that they were "equal" because that was a dumb thing to say and they obviously are not. Anyone who tries to murder someone over speech is much worse; something I made abundantly clear six years ago.

My view on that remains consistent.

3 and beyond) Again, I am not sure how to explain this. I never have ever defended anyone saying that someone should "live in fear for their life."

You can pull quotes constantly out of 6 year old threads. You will never find one instance of that. Go back even further if you wish. You still wont find an example of it.

You and I were having a direct conversation in that thread. I was not "defending" or speaking for Mathloom at any point.

I was irked that your comments come across very Islamophobic (something you have in the past been, and still are accused of quite a bit). Or in DD's context, very anti-religion. Because of that, at the time I did not feel your thinking was better due to it seeming intolerant as well.

That's really all there is to it.

Frankly, I have no ****ing idea why you two loony toons are trying to lump me in with Mathloom (who isn't even in this thread ) in a thread from 6 years ago.

It's deflecting from this thread.

 

I applaud you for being able to change your viewpoint. That is not a very common thing in this subforum, although I believe Azadre also changed his views somewhat from when he was younger.

 

You only applaud it because it's more in line with yours.

 

Correct .

 

Again, I'm still expecting my apology that is certainly more warranted than ATW expecting an apology every time he is labeled as an obsessed Islamophobe.

 

My favorite quote of all time, "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."

My dream is that all religious people understand that God gave mankind Reason not Religion. If this happens, Religion won't disappear but hopefully it will be minimized to a tradition with only ceremonial uses.

 

I try to take people for their actual merits, not some perceived idealism based off of looks.


Religion sucks.


That is a great quote, ipaman.

 

The 'White Nationalist Party' hates the Jews so much they push the propaganda that Israel shouldn't exist. All one has to do is look at the fact that the entire area was Jewish for thousands of years before the Prophet Mohammed (most like Jewish background) prior to inventing Islam in 560 AD.

 

You are free to be offended by it, but it shouldn't be because the post was somehow against all whites.

 

I would take any info from the FBI or Department of Justice with a grain of salt.