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How many franchise players are there really?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by celebrevida, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. celebrevida

    celebrevida Member

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    Not sure I agree that Durant can't carry a team. He seems to be doing fine without Curry and Green several times already this season.

    And don't forget Durant somehow obtained great success with Westbrook. This is something that maybe even Lebron can't do. (Just joking, sort of).
     
  2. photojoe

    photojoe Member

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    How many "franchise players" are there in the NBA?

    I don't know.

    But I'm glad that 2 of them play for the Rockets
     
    vlaurelio likes this.
  3. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    what have durant done without WB?

    why did he leave a team who were up 3-1 in the wcfs against GSW?

    then he bandwagonned to a 73 win team and had even less wins when he joined.

    if he was in the cavs right now no way their record will be this good
     
  4. celebrevida

    celebrevida Member

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    He won a championship and was finals MVP.
     
  5. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    any superstar who bandwagonned with a 73 team would have won too

    Lebron could have done it too

    if Harden was traded with KD last year GSW still champions

    and Rockets wouldn't have won 55 wins

    KD's a beta b****.. "can't win with those cats"

    scared to even give the rockets an interview even MVP runner-up harden was there
     
    arabrocket likes this.
  6. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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  7. celebrevida

    celebrevida Member

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    LeBron could get them to the playoffs but it's somewhat overstated to say he would make the worst team contenders.

    Note that when I think contender, I am talking about teams in the top tier like current Rockets, Warriors, Cavs and Celtics and not teams like the current Timberwolves, Pistons, Trailblazers or Nuggets. When think worst teams, I am thinking of Nets of the last few years.

    While a couple of those Cavs teams would not be great without him, many of them were better than people give credit for. A lot of those teams were also built around LeBron and were never meant to work without him.

    Again it's overstated to say all of those pre-Heat LeBron Cavs were just scrub last place teams without him. Also add to the fact the East was very weak during those years.

    LeBron is also far from the only player that could turn a franchise around. Prime Shaq did it with the Magic and I could go on and on.
     
  8. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    Harden is a great player, but he's not the 2nd best player, after LeBron. Durant can score just as easily as Harden, and is also versatile enough to guard 4 positions (and maybe the PG position too, depending on who it is).
     
  9. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    To be fair, KD has never been in a situation where he's had to carry an entire team by himself, with the exception of the year that Westbrook was injured, in OKC. That year, Westbrook played in 46/82 games, and OKC went 59-23. Serge Ibaka and Reggie Jackson were the only other 2 players to average double digit points, that season.

    So based on just that, maybe KD can actually carry a team to the playoffs...we just don't have enough of a sample size to judge, conclusively.
     
  10. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Yeah but Durant can't playmake like Harden, what makes Harden valuable is he is Nash mixed with Billups, he will score a lot but he will also run the team offense. That allows you to save on money cuz you can just get 3nDs like Ariza and the team will be great. OTH with KD you still a franchise playmaker cuz he can only do the scoring role. So if you look at GSW, KD needed to take a massive discount (9.5M?) Just so everybody will stay.

    If KD was as good as you say he is this season how come the Rox have a better record than GSW?
     
    #50 roslolian, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  11. phantoman

    phantoman Contributing Member

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    giannas, Imbeed, Curry, KD, Westbrook, Harden, Khawi, LBJ, Davis,
     
  12. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Anyone who watches and understand basketball knows Kevin Durant is a fantastic, high-impact player. I don't need a larger sample size to know that he's on the short list of players in the league who are capable of "carrying" a team, even if he's not interested in having to carry a team for a whole season.

    As for his decision to join Golden State, that's his right as a free agent to join whichever team he likes and I'm not going to criticize him for it. If the league doesn't like it, they need to put stronger rules in place to prevent super teams. I said the same thing about LeBron, defended him quite a bit on here, when he bolted from the Cavs the first time to form a super team in Miami. Durant's choice was even more defensible in that at least OKC still had a piece you could potentially build around. The Cavs had to start over from scratch.
     
  13. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    what was their record for those 36 games without WB?
     
  14. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    To your first paragraph: I'm not saying he can't do it. I'm just saying that he hasn't done it, if only because of him always having good players on his team. KD hasn't ever been on a team as bad as the 2007 trash team that LeBron dragged to the Finals, only to get swept.

    To your second paragraph: ??? lol Where did I criticize KD for joining GS? It's great that you have a such a strong opinion, buuuut I'm not sure why that was even brought up.
     
  15. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    No clue. Just went on Wikipedia to see what their overall record was like, that year, because I remember Westbrook being injured.
     
  16. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Sorry, the second paragraph was just a general comment against criticism most people have made about him. I didn't intend that to be directed specifically to you.
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    25-11 (which includes 1 win against the Celtics in which KD also didn't play).

    So, 24-11 with KD and no Westbrook.
     
  18. RHU525

    RHU525 Member
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    Don't be fooling yourself. KD is definitely better than Harden. The warriors would not trade us KD if we offered them Harden and that's a fact.
    KD might be the greatest scorer in NBA history. His scores with such ease and is a mismatch nightmare for every player in the league. When they were on the same team KD was the alpha not Harden and KD is in the running for defensive player of the year and he's already won the MVP.

    The Reason the Warriors have a worst record is because they don't care about the Regular Season. They are in cruise control, they've already won 73 games and lost in the finals. They are saving it. While Harden and CP3 are trying to prove a point and Harden is trying to win MVP.
     
  19. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    We could flip this around. Would the Rockets trade Harden for Kevin Durant?

    Hmmm ... with CP3 on the team, they just might.
     
  20. RHU525

    RHU525 Member
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    He absolutely would because Durant makes 10 million less than Harden and he would want the cap space.
     

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