It's not just lack of production, it's also lack of trying. Game 7, tie game, at home, 5 min left. 2 long range bricks and that's it? And that's after claiming "It's on me" before the series. Either TMac had really low basketball IQ, or he's intimidated, or he simply didn't care. Kobe didn't shoot well in every game. But in a close game, he always gave his best efforts in the 4th quarter. And he got his reputation because his team were on the winning side most of the time in that situation. TMac had his chance, his teammates carried him long enough to win the first round, he just blew it.
wanna also compare yao and tmac's avg's for each person's playoff run in the tmac/yao era? tmac: 04-05: 30.7ppg, 7.4 rpg, 6.7apg, 1.6spg, 1.4bpg, 3.71 to, 2.86 pf, 43 min. 06-07: 25.3ppg, 5.9 rpg, 7.3apg, 0.7spg, 0.9bpg, 3.00 to, 1.71pf, 40 min. 07-08: 27.0ppg, 8.2 rpg, 6.8apg, 1.5 spg, 0.8bpg, 3.00 to, 1.33 pf, 41.2 min. Yao: 04-05: 21.4ppg, 10.3 rpg, 0.7 apg, 0.3 spg, 2.7 bpg, 2.71 to, 4.43pf, 31.6 min 06-07: 25.1 ppg, 10.3rpg, 0.9 apg, 0.1 spg, 0.7 bpg, 4.71 to, 3.86pf, 37.1 min 08-09: 17.1ppg, 10.9 rpg, 1.0apg, 0.4spg, 1.2 bpg, 1.89 to, 3.00pf, 35.9 min You know what this shows? that tmac was alot more productive than yao when playoff time came. you know else this shows? that the year we made it to the second round, yao arguably performed worse but we made it to the 2nd round cause we had a better cast of players. in the end, i know what it is. the nba is a "what have you done for me lately" kind of game. and we think of nba players as spoiled little brats and that they should be grateful to be playing the game. what if put that mentality to what we do? like right now, let's say you have a salary job that pays you pretty decent. let's say 80k a year to put you in an individual salary that's greater than 95% of the country and not household income. you've worked at this job for 6 years, you've been fully vested, you are the man when it comes to credit financial analyzing or whatever and get employee of the month every month. oh ****, market crashes........you get stressed out to the point that you are physically sick and take a leave of absence for 2 weeks. you come back and find your boss telling you that you've been demoted because you missed 2 weeks when it's a time they "needed you most" and you come to find out all your coworkers can't remember that you were employee of the month for 6 years and you just needed 2 weeks to rest your ailing body but someone who doesn't perform when it counts. don't tell me you wouldn't quit your job and hightail it outta there too.
as i said before, jon barry states that he watched tmac train and try his hardest whenever they lost those series and he saw that tmac was most destroyed by those losses.....i know that interview was sometime during the end of this finals between boston and la, i just don't have the time to sit through all those videos to find it.
and for someone who wants ppl to not care? stay outta these type of threads....you obviously miss the point in a thread whose title is a question already.
Only Tmac didn't just miss 2 weeks or even 2 months, he has only played 65 games in the last 2 years. It would be more like you were employee of the month for 6 years, then you missed an average of 8 months of work for each of the last 2 years, but still want to be treated like you have been working more than any one else and should be front runner for any promotions as soon as you return. You aren't, so you leave for a new job at a new york based firm where your production is the worst it has been in your career and you are let go. Fair or not, you can't be an all time great if you don't win in the playoffs. Most all time greats are given grief for not winning rings, not still looking for their first playoff series win going into their 14th season in the league. Sure he wasn't blessed with the best of supporting casts every year, but neither was Iverson, or Lebron when they took their teams to the finals. Every year there are teams with bad supporting casts that have no chance of winning a ring that make it to the 2nd round, it's not even really a big accomplishment.
and we give yao a pass? how many games has yao missed in his entire career? how much are we held captive to his near max salary? like right now, alot of ppl clamor for us to get danny granger who is an allstar talent. but because he's stuck on a ****ty team, he can't even make the playoffs. you forget that lebron made it that far in playoffs with a better supporting cast than mcgrady and in the "leastern" conference. And iverson, like lebron, had a team that was built for him. all defense, allowed allen iverson to shoot 30-40 times a game and played in the "leastern" conference as well. if we had traded yao for one fringe all star and a nice role player, we would've gotten outta the 1st round much sooner.
and i re-iterate, jon barry, tmac's teammate even states from first hand experience that tmac tried his hardest to win here in houston.
game 3 v. celtics this past year? he was like 0-5 in the 4th and didn't do much offensively except jack up bricks from long range. but guess what? fisher made 4 shots in the 4th to bail the lakers out. if someone made shots in that game 7 v. the jazz and we won, you would think different of tmac? the lakers won game 3. so nobody cares that kobe sucked in that 4th quarter. my point was tmac played superb for 3.5 quarters. i'm not going to deny he could have played better in the 4th. the point was he needed SOME help to win that game. 29 points, 13 assists, 3 blocks, 5 boards -> that's more than enough from one player. you can't seriously nitpick the last 4-5 minutes and say the loss was on him. i thought a kobe fan like you would understand since his teammates bailed him out at least 3 times in the playoff run where he was literally a ghost in the 4th or struggled mightily in entire games. you do know role players sometimes CAN win games right? dfish? ron artest? and i didn't even bring up pau. both ron and paul made game winners during their championship run this past year.
This is just revisionist history. Tmac's supporting cast in Orlando was atrocious mostly due to the fact that all the team's money was invested in McGrady and Grant Hill who was perpetually injured. Take a look at his supporting cast the last time he took Orlando to the playoffs - no where near the same talent level Lebron had in Cleveland. http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2003.html ...you act like Orlando didn't play teams in the West back then. Give me a break - a scoring champ is a scoring champ because they can score regardless of what conference they play in. I'm not buying that argument at all.
teammates matter. if some posters are calling throwing this "throwing teammates under the bus" fine... but role players do matter. the horrys, fishers, arizas...got their fame b/c they make wide open shots and make them enough to help their superstars. there's a reason these guys are talked about also. can anyone name me ONE role player that has stepped up for tmac and yao pre-morey (let's be real, if morey was GM during tmac's tenure as a rocket from beginning to end, he would have gone to the WCF numerous times) and say wow, he had a breakthrough series? we all applaud guys like horry or fisher or guys like that b/c they make shots they're supposed to make (open shots from their stars), which can be tough in a playoff game.
for goodbug: game 6 v. thunder (close game 95-94): kobe 1-4 in 4th quarter, including missing game winner (pau tipped in). game 2 v. celtics: 1-3 game 3 v. celtics: 1-5 (ALL jumpers). game 7 v. celtics: 1-4 (he did make 8 fts in the 4th), but overall was 6-24. i'm just picking the games where kobe clearly didn't dominate the 4th in games the lakers STILL WON. would we have a different discussion about kobe if the lakers lost those games? sure we would. we would be saying how he needs to step up and all these crap. but the lakers won. and when you win, it doesn't really matter who steps up b/c it is a team game. so my point is, the best player is expected to step up "consistently" and carry the team. but there will be nights where that player will need more help from his teammates than other nights. and even the "best closer" like kobe clearly needs help from his teammates, even in the clutch. now let's go back to game game 7 v. uta in 06-07 tmac was 3-6 in the 4th quarter for 8 points in the 4th with 2 assists. under 5 minutes, he was 1-3 for 2 points. again, people think he "quit" and use that term SO loosely in association with tmac, despite doing everything ONE guy can absolutely do: 29 points, 13 dimes, 5 boards, 3 blocks. but he quit in those 5 minutes. he has low bball IQ... but hey, if it was kobe, we would have won that game. i mean, he's clutch EVERY game right? never had a bad 4th quarter where he needs to be bailed out. PS: in no way i'm comparing tmac and kobe. kobe > tmac. my point is even kobe needs help in the 4th more often than not.
I thought he was really overrated. Put up big numbers on a crap team but wasn't as efficient as Kobe. I didn't see him on the same level as him ever. Just seen him as a chucker. really streaky shooter and who took a lot of difficult shots that weren't necessary most of the time. overrated. kinda like gilbert arenas.
??? Orlando Tmac was the most preternaturally naturally gifted basketball player I've seen this decade. Watching Tmac back then was like watching Dominique dunking a basketball... you never saw someone so naturally born to do something. like Wilkens he didn't have a brain cell in his head but he had more natural talent than Kobe or probably even Jordan... but not 1/10 the work ethic ever has
It was because lakers had a lead and Fisher was hot, nothing wrong to feed the hot hand. If Fisher wasn't hot, Kobe would take over, he might struggle and lose the game there, but he wouldn't stop trying like Tmac did. And remember why Fisher got those mid-range open shots? Because Celtics refused to switch off Kobe's pick and allowed Fisher to get loose. Kobe's good enough to attract defense without touching the ball. Tmac on the other hand, barely ever made a pick for anyone. Kobe had won 4 out of 5 game 7, won all 3 close games, won all 3 home games, won a close Olympic final game. He didn't earn his reputation by getting bailed out. Before Fisher hit 2 big 3 in game 4 2009, he was 0-5. Fisher was also 0-8 from 3 pts line in the first 6 games because hit 2 in game 7. Artest was 2-7 from 3pts line in game 7 and it's his best shooting game in finals. Lakers didn't exactly have sharp shooters, but they're bound to hit some shots. And those want it more happen to be on the winning side more often than not. Ariza was a nobody before traded to Lakers, he hit those shots in playoff and earned a lucrative deal. These players looked good because they played off Kobe, not the other way around. Too bad TMac couldn't make his teammates better, he didn't have the strong will to succeed in a grind-it-out game.
