I started writing a response, but it was getting too long. The short of it--you can't keep everyone all the time. There are 40 man roster considerations, a need to balance the team (majors and minors), and a need to try and make moves to win in the near term at a certain point. Kile is the only one on your list that I agree the Astros definitely had evidence and reason to pay the money and didn't. Was that the same summer as Biggio maybe?
No; I was responding specifically to this post: They were good last year and he added money. He tried to add even more money - and would have, if Hamels had accepted the trade. No, we don't know what's going to happen when the core potentially costs him significantly more money - except that, so far... he has done exactly what he's promised. He kept payroll at an absolute minimum while they spent to rebuild the farm. (And they DID spend to rebuild their system.) And now that they're good, he has increased the payroll significantly - while continuing to invest in the pipeline, including increasing international scouting and signings. So, again - what evidence do you have that suggests he *won't* ante up when the big bill comes due? Because, so far... he's been a man of his word.
Thanks man, I appreciate it. I don't post often, although I'd like to. Work/real life tends to get in the way sometimes. In any case, go Astros!
Sorry Luis, Cammy, & Finley found steroids after leaving Houston. Abreu had nothing to do with money, just prioritizing the wrong guys. Kile was a FA bust in Colorado (though he obviously turned it around in St Louis). Lofton, like Aberu was really a prospect at the time It sucks that we gave up Abreu, Luis, & Lofton for basically nothing, but that happens. Darryl Kile turned into Brad Lidge Cammy & Finley brought back Derek Bell, who while not on the level of those 2 post-roids, still a pretty good player for us in the 90s.
Good summary. I'll add that Abreu was a 40 man roster crunch issue. At the time, I think it came down to Abreu or Hidalgo. Both would've been sad in hindsight to lose. Hopefully we have a front office that trades them before it comes to that...which results in things like Lofton happening. So yeah, can't win em all And Luis wasn't for nothing. It was a "win-now" move where they tried to upgrade offensively at C with Wilkins over Servais. Didn't work out as expected, of course.. but Gonzo was the same player for another 2 years.
I would argue - and Hunsicker would, as well, I'm quite certain - that Abreu was his regime's biggest mistake. They could have/should have protected Abreu and Hidalgo in the '98 expansion draft, exposing Derek Bell instead (who had a decent salary and would have possibly gone unselected). But... they didn't. That and trading Lofton are the two biggest mistakes of my Astro fandom (I was too young for the Morgan deal).
Abreu was a no-win situation in my mind. I agree that it was a big mistake, but I think the mistake was backing themselves into that position rather than dealing out of it in advance. Exposing Derek Bell as a 28 year old in his prime coming off 3 out of 4 solid seasons would've been extremely risky. Does any team currently expose guys like him in the rule 5? (Of major leaguers exposed, I think it's typically only guys who are severely overpriced and performing like garbage.) Wouldn't you have to DFA him off the 40-man in order to expose him, which would mean running him through waivers first? I guess you're saying no one would've claimed him at that point. Hard for me to imagine.
They lost Abreu to the Diamondbacks in the expansion draft. I don't believe all the usual rule 5 rules applied. (But I could be wrong.) I was fairly active on the old Astros COnnection board in those days (RIP); the general consensus, at least among that group, was that Bell was a perfectly average player but that Hidalgo and Abreu both had superstar potential. Many advocated for the Astros to expose Bell. (And they were right. And Huniscker later agreed - although, I don't recall if he explicitly threw Bell under the bus.)
Forgot it was expansion vs. Rule 5 because he ended up in Philly. I don't recall the rules around that either. Interesting re: Bell. But makes way more sense in an expansion draft (that the D'Backs may not take a chance on him when younger guys were available from other teams) vs. the Rule 5.
Nothing with the benefit of hindsight, rather then actually nothing. Of course, we didn't re-sign him after we got him back as a FA, and received literal nothing.
It was the Devil Rays, not Dbacks. With hindsight, it is obvious that it should have been none of them. We protected a couple of garbage pitchers, IIRC.
Abreau was expansion draft (#4 pick iirc) by Tampa and was traded immediately to the Phils for Kevin Stocker, yes Kevin Stocker. Go look up some of Hun's later comments about that draft, it's really interesting to hear what all went into their decisions.
Maybe I used the wrong examples (in other eras, add in Hampton and Billy Wagner), but the general consensus amongst fans was that Drayton cared more about the bottom line than winning. The most egregious was probably his absolute refusal to go overslot in the draft just because he wanted to stay besties with Bud Selig. And it wasn't like fans were asking for us to get in on the ARod sweepstakes. We had a prudent mind doling out the contracts, but Hunsicker finally got sick of Drayton holding him back and quit, rightly so, in 2005. We saw what happened with Purpura afterwards.
I actually don't know if that's true. You certainly need to contribute in order to edit your posts. To give out rep.. I'm not sure anymore. Do you see a "+/- feedback" green button at the top right of posts? Between "Reply" and "Report"
Just because someone has shown the willingness to pick up the group tab at a restaurant (for say around $100) doesn't mean they'll pick up the group tab for $10,000. Most people get alligator arms in this situation. "What evidence do I have that he won't ante up when the big bill comes due"? I've said from the very beginning that I'll believe it when I see it. Doesn't mean that he won't, but only time will tell if he will. You however are popping off that you know for sure that he will, and the evidence that you're using to back up this claim is laughable. BIG freakin difference between giving Rasmus 15 mil for one yr, and giving Altuve what he's going to demand, as well as Springer, Correa etc. Does Crane have alligator arms? Only time will tell, and again, for Astros fans I sure hope he doesn't. Let's just agree to see how it plays out moving forward.
So is this day 3 or 4 of arguing about what may or may not happen in a few months or years? The ASB is truly the worst time in the entire sporting year. Absolutely nothing going on.
Time will tell, Fans really need to get behind this group of young guys and support this team so that Crane will have the $$$$ to be a top 7-12 payroll in 3-4 years if they want to keep Altuve/Correa/Springer etc....
