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House Investigation thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    So no documents have been delivered in response to subpoenas?

     
  2. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Certainly some of those candidates can appeal to flyover states, but they haven't thus far. So far the policy discussions have centered on climate control, prison reform, the new green deal and student loan forgiveness. Those are all the concerns of democrats in states that already are solid blue.

    Yes, based on the statement Barr claims that Mueller made, he should testify.

    The Democrats have already pointed out that Barr is a deceptive scumbag opportunist. He was deceptive, but he did not commit perjury.


    Everyone that doesn't have their heads lodged up Trump's ass or believes in some bizarre form of rapture, knows that Donald Trump is a serial liar and a sleezy person. They vote for him for political reasons and because they agree with him on policy issues. You are not going to convince anyone that isn't already convinced.

    On Puerto Rico........ how many votes do you think the Democrats gained harping on the President lying and being a self interested prick? How much cover and distraction do you think Trump got out of that? Why not discuss that several of the plants that Trump claims he saved have in fact recently failed. Why not address the drug issue hitting the Iron Belt and Midwest. Why not even mention the plight of places like Ottawa Illinois or Athens Ohio. Why not address job growth or dealing with drug abuse in these towns.

    Trump may be a POS, but he at least throws middle and small sized towns a bone....... the democrats did under Obama and Clinton and actually won.... the Electoral College matters. How do you think that people in places like Whitewater Wisconsin think when they hear Democratic candidates discuss doing away with the Electoral College? They are not stupid....... they know it is an attempt to marginalize them.

    I have had a similar discussion with Republicans when it comes to black voters.......... there is a reason that black people do not vote Republican in large numbers, and there is a reason that the Democrats are losing in the heartland.
     
    RayRay10, Os Trigonum and justtxyank like this.
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It depends on the scope of Holder's involvement. Yes, possibly perjury or............. obstruction of justice. The problem wasn't F&F, it was the handling of the attempted investigation into F&F that was a larger concern.

    The Democrats need to be more unified if they want to beat Donald Trump in 2020 and that is simply not the case. Nancy Pelosi has attempted to get everyone on the same page, but it hasn't happened.

    It is easy to say "if doing their jobs turns off voters", but the reality is that there will be an endless amount of whining if the Democrats lose in 2020 and the Supreme Court and federal courts are conservative for the next 20-25 years.
     
  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I recognize the pressure they probably feel to win the presidency in 2020. I just don't care about them and their ambitions. What I'm looking for is some selfless governing in 2019. I know I won't get it, but I maybe get riled by the idea that Democrats "should" be focusing on 2020 like it was some moral imperative. I think it'd be more accurate to say it'd be smarter to focus more on 2020.
     
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  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Have you listened to Klobuchar, or Buttigieg, or even Biden? Klobuchar, for example, has talked about infrastructure, Medicare Advantage (not Medicare for All), lower student debt via Pell (not free college for all) drug-pricing, prison reform, mental health (more of a personal issue), and tax reform (and shock... keeping some of trump's tax cuts but focusing less of corporate and wealthy and more on middle class).

    She is from middle America... I think she speaks well to the flyover states.

    Did I accuse barr of perjury? Still, having the attorney general mislead (or your word, deceive) the American public is wrong and he should be called out for that. Just as Americans should call out the president for "deception".

    Again, I think Democrats can do more than throw heartland voters a bone. Not all candidates are Warren, Sanders, or AOC. The midterms showed that moderate Democrats can and do win. And trust me... I have pointed out the cluster f*** like Foxconn, or the impact trump's tariff failures have had on the American farmer or manufacturers like Harley Davidson.
     
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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    an awful lot of sense in this
     
  8. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    I have no idea why Nook keeps parroting that narrative of what "all" Democrats are campaigning on.

    i guess it where he gets his news from.

    Everything points to Democrats electing a moderate, I have heard no one mention the green new deal in weeks of not months.
     
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  9. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Trump can run on the economy but his policies have not benefited the Rust Belt. His signature economic policy, tax reform bill, decidedly has not helped anyone but the top 1%.

    Tariffs have done more damage than good. Cost of effected goods have gone up which has reduced demand. Ford and GM had huge losses in 2018.
     
  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    If you want to stick your head in the sand, go right ahead. I live in the Midwest (Illinois and Ohio) and have to travel a lot and talk to people in the small towns in places like Illinois, Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania. I own a farm. I have breakfast with people that live in these small towns. I represent or do legal work for the employers in these places. I have to meet the people that live in these towns and talk to them. I know a lot of these towns well now (the good and the bad) and I can tell you I don’t hear a lot of excitement about the Democratic candidates (other than some for Sanders). I hear a lot of folks admit that Trump is a bad guy, but they believe he is fighting for them and not New York or LA or Chicago. They often times are okay with the Wall, they support trade renegotiations with China. They believe that Hispanics have driven their wages down... and they believe the democrats are worried about other people.

    I am a liberal, especially on social issues... but the Democrats may be in for a surprise in the Midwest border states. If the Democrats lose in 2020 I don’t want to hear any smug comments about Trump being a monster or the electorate being ignorant... the Heartland cannot make it anymore clear.

    I despise Donald Trump and what he has done to the executive power balance but if the Democrats want to stick their nose up in the air, that is on them.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Bingo.

    Either pull the trigger or walk away from the gun.
     
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  13. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    We are still exceptionally early in the process. I would be very surprised if most people could name more than a handful of the 20+ Dems running, much less what their platforms are.
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  15. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  16. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Wait, what? House Judiciary Committee Chairman Nadler is still "negotiating" with Mueller to have him come testify, and the conditions are apparently not acceptable to Mueller, so he is refusing to come under the conditions that Nadler is trying to dictate.

    Nadler says Mueller will not testify next week


    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y) said Friday that special counsel Robert Mueller will not be testifying before his panel next week.

    Nadler told reporters that the committee is still negotiating over his testimony with the Justice Department and Mueller but expects him to appear. “He will come at some point. If it’s necessary, we will subpoena him,” Nadler said.

    Democrats had originally hoped Mueller would testify on May 15.​

    This sounds like Nadler is trying to get Mueller to do something that is inappropriate, and Mueller is refusing. Sort of like the situation with AG Barr.
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    I don’t think some folks understand the rural vs urban divide. I understand their (small rural towns) plight but I don’t have much sympathy for it at this point. Personal responsibility is for other people for these folks who are still stuck in an era that doesn’t exist.

    It sucks that our policies and the election will more than likely be decided by folks who want everyone else adapt for them.
     
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  18. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Mueller is still an employee of the DoJ. Mueller's boss is the AG, who can control whether he testifies or not. As soon as Muller leaves the DoJ, he will be free to choose for himself.
     
    #218 No Worries, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    As you know very well, Barr has already said he is fine with Mueller testifying and Trump has stated that he is going to leave it up to Barr and Mueller.

    Mueller is free to choose for himself right now, and appears to be doing just that.
     
  20. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    We can dismiss Trump out of hand. Trump lies 10 time a day.

    Trump's top concern is Trump and Mueller will make Trump look bad.

    The most likely circumstance is that Trump is publicly saying Barr can decide and then privately telling Barr to not allow it.
     

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