House Intel committee votes to release Nunes memo - CNNPolitics

35,000 FISA requests have been made since 1978. Of those 35,000 requests surprisingly only 12 have been denied (I didn’t know it was this high until I looked into it). I have to think the intention of oversight wasn’t to only have 12 rejections out of 35,000 requests.

 

"That's it?"

 

Yes they should investigate anything like what you presented in your hypothetical question. The issue is, can they secure a FISA warrant for the investigation? Would a judge approve a FISA warrant if he knows the information came from a political opponent and that it was unverified? To obtain a FISA warrant on a US citizen, you have to have reasonable proof that the target person is an agent of a foreign entity.not just in contact with a foreign power. These protections were built into the law to protect citizens of the country. This is a IV Amendment Protection from the Constitution. If enough proof can be submitted for a FISA warrant without having to use nefarious means then yes they should be able to get a warrant and investigate further.

In the Carter Page issue, they used the dossier to get the warrant however they did not tell the judge where it came from. They also used a Yahoo news story later found to be leaked by Steele himself as a corroboration for the dossier even though both the dossier and the Yahoo news story originated from the same person. If Carter Page was so bad, they should have been able to easily obtain a FISA warrant without having to deceive a judge.

I haven;t seen a single person who has criticized the FBI as a whole. The only thing I have seen is people questioning the intentions of a few key people within the FBI and the DOJ who were in power.

I know you hate Trump but do not let it cloud your reason.

 

1.) Yes, they can secure a FISA warrant. The standard for approval is very low. Seeing as how the info came from an independent source, there is nothing ethically wrong here.

2.) No judge was deceived. Page was under suspicion and was being watched prior to the dossier.

I'm sorry you got your hopes up, but the memo is a bust. There is just nothing there.

 

Sorry but you are confusing the standards it takes to get a warrant on a US citizen verses a foreign interest. The bar is quite low for foreign interest that do not have 4th Amendment Protections. United States citizens are protected by the 4th Amendment.

Yes Page was under investigation but a FISA warrant was denied by the court in the summer of 2016. It was not until they added the dossier.that they were able to get the warrant. They did not reveal to the judge the source of the dossier or the fact that it was unverified. They also used the Yahoo news story as corroboration for the dossier when it came from the same source of the dossier, Christopher Steele. COmey himself said the dossier was salacious and unverified AFTER it was already used to obtain the FISA warrant. McCabe said in his testimonies that no warrant would have been obtained without the dossier.

The memo is a very big deal and apparently the tip of the iceberg.

 

its extremely high on purpose.

literally the republicans, democrats, fbi, and doj disagree with you. We are all united as a country on the fact that you don't know what you are talking about.

 

Uh no, it requires probably cause, which is an extremely low standard.

The opposite end of the spectrum would be beyond any reasonable doubt, which is a high standard.

The memo was a tool to discredit the FBI and attempt to give grounds for firing Rosenstein. It failed in that regard, hence nothing there.

Now the use of the memo, as a political weapon and illegal means of obstructing justice, yes, there is absolutely something to that.

I know this must be crushing to you, but as some point in time, you are going to have to step into the real world.

 

Wrong

A US citizen can be an agent of a foreign power, which only requires probable cause.

Alternatively, the government may seek a court order permitting the surveillance using the FISA court.[18] Approval of a FISA application requires the court find probable cause that the target of the surveillance be a "foreign power" or an "agent of a foreign power", and that the places at which surveillance is requested is used or will be used by that foreign power or its agent.[2][19] In addition, the court must find that the proposed surveillance meet certain "minimization requirements" for information pertaining to U.S. persons.[20] Depending on the type of surveillance, approved orders or extensions of orders may be active for 90 days, 120 days, or a year.[21]

Page has been under investigation since 2013, before the Dossier even existed. That's probably cause in itself.

And then this:

“Deputy Director McCabe testified before the Committee in December 2017 that no surveillance warrant would have been sought from the FISC without the Steele dossier information,” the memo claims, referring to the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.

Asked if that was a true representation, a source familiar with McCabe’s testimony responded: “100% not."

The facts you are trying to use to support your argument, simply aren't facts. Own it.

Certainly agree the memo is a very big deal as shows the lengths to which the Republican party has fallen, and you are right, they will continue to spoon feed this total bullshit to people like you, as you sheep will eat it up.

 

I understand the eagerness of trump supporters to find something/anything to put an end to the Russian investigation. Some seem to retain a bit of an open mind about the importance of that investigation, but they are a minority. An investigation into what is nothing less that an attempt both undermine our democracy and to help install an American government more favorable to the Russian oligarchy.

A Russian government that would remove the damaging sanctions Putin's clique earned by attacking not only Ukraine and annexing an important part of its sovereign territory, but also, right now, heavily supporting a small group of ethnic Russian separatists with both troops and advanced arms. A Russian government attacking not only our political system and those of our allies and friends, but also attacking NATO, which has kept the peace in Europe for over 70 years.

So why would trump attack an investigation into a threat to our country that has been documented by literally all of our security apparatus? Why? It makes no sense unless it is to protect himself at the expense of his country. Inexplicably, a group here don't care, and about 30% of the electorate don't seem to care, something that sits somewhere beyond bizarre, in my humble opinion.

 

to spy on an american through the FISA court, you must prove the target is an 'agent of a foreign power'.

https://ilt.eff.org/index.php/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act

lol. what?

let me see if i have this straight, the memo can be viewed as obstruction of justice by Trump/republicans. Something Mueller is searching for and Democrats are begging for. And the response by democrats and the FBI is to do everything in their power to prevent this obstruction of justice from happening? WTF are you talking about?

 

Were surveliences on Cater Page in 2014 done by the Special Clairvoyant tactical team or the SCT team of the FBI when they were out to undermine Trump?

 

never said Page wasn;t an agent of a foreign power or that the FBI didn't prove this to FISA. I was correcting larsv since he didn't understand the law.

 

Literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard

No, you don't need to prove anything. You get warrants to empower you to find proof.

If you had proof, you wouldn't need to monitor the person in the first place.

You need "probable cause", the same thing a police officer needs to pull over a swerving driver. You think in DUI cases, a judge asks what proof the officer had that the driver was drunk when he wanted to pull him over. No.

I just feel sorry for you.

You really are clueless about this whole thing is about, aren't you?

Congress is about to get served with a recommendation that president Trump committed obstruction of justice and maybe charges relating to collusion with Russia. Everybody knows this.

There is no partisan politics about that. There is no defense to not bringing up immediate impeachment charges.

Everything the right has done in the past six months is an attempt to discredit the FBI, so they can claim biases, and not impeach.

 

So let me see if i have this straight; the democrats who did everything possible to prevent this memo from being released, will now claim that the release of this memo is obstruction of justice and therefore trump should be impeached. Explain that one for the class to hear larsv. If its grounds for trump to be impeached why would they try to stop it from happening?

Do you not realize Democrats read this memo, knew what was in it, and did everything to prevent it from being released? same for the FBI. What does this tell you larsv? It should tell you that there is no way its going to lead to good things for Democrats and especially not impeachment (the holy grail for dems). You don't even need political hack opinions, just use your dam eyes and brain.

BY this logic there should be no FISC. what would be the point, if its spy on anyone and when you find proof use it?

 

Unable to argue the merits of the memo itself, you now try to convince people that the memo is significant because of the Democratic party's reaction to the memo.

I know that you had put a lot of hope and faith in this memo being a big deal, but it might be time for you to just admit, it was a big flop.

I heard someone say the memo was such a bomb that Hawaii issued a warning.

 

the FISA Court is getting off way too easy here, given that they approved a warrant based on evidence the FBI had not corroborated

 

lol @tallanvor posted the actual language from regulation in post # 170. I am sorry if you lack the ability to understand what you are reading.

I will quote it gain. Try to read slowly.

 

A. You don't know that
B. Nunes just admitted he didn't even read the intelligence report before writing the memo
C. The memo even admits that the investigation into Carter began 3 months before the discovery of the Steele Dossier which undermines the Alt-right's whole argument!