1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Homeless problem downtown

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by kubli9, Aug 4, 2003.

  1. kubli9

    kubli9 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,048
    Likes Received:
    4,475
    Aug. 2, 2003, 7:57PM


    Park's refurbishing will bring an end to enclave
    By BILL MURPHY
    Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle

    Construction workers outside the new downtown arena work to finish the gargantuan project. Somewhere inside, jackhammers forcefully pound away.

    On La Branch nearby, cars whiz past. Everyone seems headed somewhere with a purpose. Blocks away, thousands of people in office towers are working.

    But at Root Memorial Square, across the street from the arena, a half-dozen figures are sprawled on cardboard, asleep, and a half-dozen others sit idly.

    Root has long been an enclave where the homeless gather beneath live oaks to pass the day, wash laundry and borrow cigarettes from one another.

    That's about to change.

    In September, construction crews are scheduled to give the square-block park a $2.3 million makeover. City officials hope it is transformed into Houston's version of New York City's Rucker Park, a famed venue for top-shelf street basketball.

    City and arena officials avoid saying so, but they don't want people headed to events to be afraid to walk through the park because the homeless are there.

    "We're hesitant to say that, because it sounds so callous," said Tim McDougall, Rockets' vice president of marketing. "This is a new arena. It was made so families can come out and see the circus. It's a family venue. Nobody in the organization wants to see (homeless people) put out with no place to go."

    The refurbishment will add a basketball court with tiered seating, gardens, sculpture and new sidewalks. Live oaks and other trees that grace the park will be saved, except for several that are dying.

    The park could eventually expand. Houston Rockets officials have said they will lead a drive to raise money to buy a parking lot on the block north of Root and give the land to the city, said Dawn Ullrich, head of the city's convention and entertainment department, which manages Root Memorial Square.

    Arena street-level windows will allow passers-by on La Branch to watch Rockets' practices, unless curtains are drawn. The Rockets may run clinics in the park, McDougall said.

    "It's kind of a Field of Dreams thing, having it in the shadow of the arena," he said. "(Rockets star) Steve (Francis) talked of stopping by and seeing what was going on in the park."

    There is now little about the park that could be called a field of dreams.

    On a recent sweltering day, most of those at the park were sleeping or reclining on benches or cardboard laid on the grass. Shopping carts, filled with belongings, were parked nearby.

    Not all were idle. Hazel Algalala, 54, an immigrant from Trinidad, stood by the drinking fountain, laboriously filling an empty detergent container with water. She poured it into a 5-gallon plastic bucket and hauled it back to her spot.

    "When I don't have the detergent, I have the bar of soap," she said, swiping the green bar over a sock.

    Others had finished their laundry. A man had strung a line between branches of a live oak and hung shirts and pants, while another slept as his laundry dried on the park's border hedges.

    Algalala and others in the park said police prevent them from staying there at night.

    Office workers from buildings several blocks from the park don't stroll up for picnic lunches.

    "It's like it's completely occupied. You kind of feel like you're walking into someone else's home or property," said Pat Whitten-Lege, a Midtown resident who sometimes bicycles past the park.

    Several homeless men said it is fair for the city and the Rockets to want the park to be used by more than just the homeless.

    "The homeless don't have no place here," said Lee Edwards, 60, who said he has been homeless for seven years. "People going to games, the homeless trying to sleep -- that ain't going to work."

    The number of homeless soars to as many as 150 on Sundays, when the Rev. Alex Morrison, who runs Houston Christway Ministry, preaches there from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. and hands out food.

    Morrison has sought another park for his ministry while Root is being refurbished. His first choice was Elizabeth Baldwin Park on Elgin in Midtown.

    The Midtown Civic Club and the Downtown and Midtown Residents Association lobbied the City Council to block Morrison's request. More than 100 residents turned out at a recent neighborhood meeting on the issue.

    In the past five years, condo lofts, many selling in the $200,000-$300,000 range, have been built around Midtown, including around Baldwin Park.

    "This park was all trashed out four years ago before (the condo owners) arrived," said Christina Hsu, who lives in a condo near the park. "There was trash and syringes, a lot of criminal activity."

    Residents, including many of the new city dwellers, now help look after Baldwin, bring their children to the playground and jog on a path that winds under live oaks.

    "We don't think they should take an inner-city park that has become the center of a neighborhood and turn it into another Root park," said Whitten-Lege, who lives across from Baldwin.

    "I have seen 10 or 20 or 30 people sleeping in (Root) park," she said. "If they came down here in those kinds of numbers, I don't think anyone would want to take their children here. I don't think people who used the park would feel secure and safe."

    After the outcry, Morrison, who has ministered at Root for seven years, agreed to look for another site. Allen's Landing, a park on Buffalo Bayou under the Main Street Bridge, was his second choice, said Richard Cantu, director of the mayor's Citizens' Assistance Office.

    The University of Houston-Downtown and the Bayou Preservation Association got wind of Morrison's coming and made it clear they oppose the idea.

    "It's kind of a `not in my back yard' deal," Cantu said. "They want to help the homeless, but just not anywhere near them."

    Morrison said he is willing to leave Root for good if he finds a suitable site elsewhere. But, he added, "If (the homeless) congregate there, I will go there. The Lord has sent me to minister to these people nobody cares about."

    City officials are taking a wait-and-see approach concerning how to deal with the homeless after Root park is refurbished, likely after the Super Bowl at Reliant Stadium on Feb. 1.

    It could be a non-issue by then, because the homeless may move on if other people begin using the park in great enough numbers, said Pete Radiwick, spokesman for the city's convention and entertainment facilities department, which manages the park.

    A park attendant will hand out basketballs and enforce regulations, which may ban laundry-hanging. The city also is looking into whether Morrison needs a permit to minister and hand out sandwiches in the park.

    Cantu has talked with SEARCH and Bread of Life about allowing Morrison to perform his ministry at their facilities. SEARCH provides services in Midtown to help the homeless return to productive lives. Bread of Life, a nonprofit near downtown, provides social services for families struggling with poverty, homelessness, drug abuse, HIV and AIDS.

    "We're between a rock and a hard place," Cantu said. "We have economic development and revitalization, and people want to see new facilities. Homeless people just don't factor into the equation.

    "Because of that, it comes across to people as unsympathetic and cold-blooded -- a wish to shift them to another location, where they will be out of sight, out of mind."

    District I Councilwoman Carol Alvarado, who represents the arena and Baldwin Park areas, said she hopes Morrison links his ministry with a group that provides more services to the homeless.

    "I don't think providing one meal is really productive in trying to address the homeless problem," she said. "I would rather see the homeless getting services they need: alcohol and drug rehabilitation (and) mental health counseling."



    I read this article in GARM and wanted to see what y'all thought about the latter part of the article. I live near downtown and have seen many of these homeless people in downtown, midtown, and montrose. Most of these people are either crazy, drunks, or drug abusers. While they aren't really in violation of the law, I still see these people as a danger to others and themselves. Does it seem to anyone else that there is way too much catering going on for a bunch of "bums"? What would your solution to the problem be?
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 1999
    Messages:
    73,586
    Likes Received:
    19,915
    I read this article yesterday in the newspaper and thought, "you know...we had this very same discussion 3 years ago when we opened up Enron Field."
     
  3. arkoe

    arkoe (ง'̀-'́)ง

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    10,372
    Likes Received:
    1,589
    That's great if you don't like them there, but where exactly do you propose they go? I've been down there on Sunday afternoons with my church, a different one than mentioned in the article, handing out food, and it's not exactly like the people are there because they want to be. For the most part they're not bad people, they're just people without many options.
     
  4. Deuce Rings

    Deuce Rings Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    4,026
    Likes Received:
    2,800
    Absolute steaming smelly bullsh**!!!! Those people are there because they lack the motivation or the will to help themselves. You have got to be kidding me. It's sad, but it's their own fault that they are homeless. Society owes them nothing.
     
  5. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    56,814
    Likes Received:
    39,125
    Do you feel this way about all homeless people? Are just about these particular ones.
     
  6. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    86,004
    Likes Received:
    84,456
    That's one of the more ignorant posts I've seen recently.

    Fact - ~75% of all homeless people suffer from some form of mental disorder.

    Like arkoe, I've done a ton of volunteer work with the homeless in this area. I've talked with Rev. Morrison, he's a good man & truly cares about these folks. However, he really does need to link up with a group/program that has the facilities to handle the true needs of these folks - Councilwoman Alvarado said it best: "I don't think providing one meal is really productive in trying to address the homeless problem," she said. "I would rather see the homeless getting services they need: alcohol and drug rehabilitation (and) mental health counseling."
     
  7. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    42,794
    Likes Received:
    3,004
    Yet, in another thread, he claims we Americans don't know what goes on in the rest of the world. Maybe he needs to learn what goes on here.
     
  8. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    362
    Have any of you guys actually worked with homeless people?
     
  9. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Messages:
    9,560
    Likes Received:
    2,515
    Is that legit? 75%? I was wondering about that. I always see homeless people talking and cussing to themselves as they walk by...it kind of scares the **** out of me.

    Still, 75% seems like a lot.
     
  10. F.D. Khan

    F.D. Khan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes Received:
    11
    I'm not trying to refute those numbers, but they do look a little high. That also poses the question that are they mental patients when they become homeless? Or does the state of homelessness drive them mad??

    And Yes I work quite often with the homeless and with groups. I am the VP on the North Houston Rotary. As I have always felt, social services should be handled by PRIVATE charity groups and not by the government. I just never felt it was the governments job to feed, clothe or nurse people.

    Its really not the 'governments' problem if people run out of money and can't find a job. Thats why people must save and work hard. If people felt they could sit home and recieve a check who wouldn't do that???
     
  11. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    21,652
    Likes Received:
    10,567
    Our welfare system gives a person about 200-300 dollars a month to live on. So, I doubt many grow up saying, "why should I work when I can collect welfare."

    Proverty is a problem for all of society because, it causes many social issues that we all have to deal with eventually. If you look historically at any country that didn't take care of their poor, you will see disorder and eventually disaster. Communism took over in most countries for this very reason. The French revolution, hitlers rise in germany, napolean, the communist rise in China, Vietnam, Russia, and Cuba were successful for this very reason.

    The government role is provide security and stability. Proverty creates instability, so the government needs to make sure it doesn't get out of hand or every citizen will suffer.
     
  12. Vik

    Vik Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    16
    "Approximately 20-25% of the single adult homeless population suffers from some form of severe and persistent mental illness (Koegel et al., 1996)."

    http://www.nationalhomeless.org/mental.html

    75% did seem a little high to me. However 25% is still a HUGE number, all things considered. Perhaps the disparity between the two numbers can be attributed to differing definitions of "severe." At any rate, I'm curious as to where you found the 75% number.

    I have heard a statistic that 35% of the homeless are Veterans. Can anybody confirm this?
     
  13. Buck Turgidson

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Messages:
    86,004
    Likes Received:
    84,456
    Yep, that number is wrong. I misremembered the stats & included those who have a chemical dependency other than alcoholism along with those who are mentally ill.
     
  14. arkoe

    arkoe (ง'̀-'́)ง

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2001
    Messages:
    10,372
    Likes Received:
    1,589
    As many of you probably know, work programs to teach people job skills in order to get them off welfare was really big in the 60's. In 1968, "Joseph Califano, principal aide to Lyndon Johnson, had called reporters into his office to tell them that a government analysis had shown that only 50,000 persons, or 1 percent of the 7,300,000 people on welfare were capable of being given the skills and training to make them self-sufficient (Murray 1984)."

    That's a truly incredible number, quoted from a book called Losing Ground: American Social Policy 1950-1980.
     
  15. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    48,907
    Likes Received:
    17,511
    I was going to point out the mental illness issue. How in the heck is someone who talks to themselves, may have more than one personality is paranoid, or any of the other symptoms of mental illness that manifest themselves in the various ways many of us have witnessed going to work? Perhaps Deuce Rings has a job where swearing at an invisible person during the workday wouldn't be frowned on by an employer, but I somehow, doubt it.
     
  16. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    56,814
    Likes Received:
    39,125
    Of course, a great number of homeless people are mothers with children who don't have a support system helping to get them work and the necessary day care. (Texas ranks appallingly low in those sorts of things compared to the majority of the other states in the country) Another large number are alcoholics with their attendant problems. (which could be argued as their fault... maybe, maybe no)

    A significant percentage, however, are people who would have been institutionalized 20 or 30 years ago for mental illness.

    Back in the '70's, if I'm remembering correctly, there was a great deal of controversy in Texas about people being put in mental hospitals indefinitely who could exist very well outside of them with the proper support system. I believe there were some cases in the Texas courts that threw a lot of light on this and helped lead to reform.

    Unfortunately, as is too often the case in Texas, the funds for the support systems (meds... counseling...etc.) for these metally ill people weren't provided, or... if they were provided, they were cut and cut and cut over the years. So you have these people who are sick on the streets not getting care. Things just aren't simplistic.
     
  17. kubli9

    kubli9 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,048
    Likes Received:
    4,475
    Thanx for the responses guys. I haven't worked with the homeless, but I am around them almost everyday due to my delivery job in the montrose/downtown area and also the medical center. I'm sympathetic to these people, I always think to myself, "what terrible things have happened in their life to lead them to this point?" At the same time, I have to deal with the constant panhandling, I've even had to help a lady once when a homeless man tried to steal her purse. I just can't bring myself to give them my spare change because, besides the fact that I'm a poor college student :( , I feel it gives them incentive to keep doing what they're doing. It's not like I want these people to die, but isn't even giving these people food as part of a charitable function the same thing? Shouldn't the goal be to force them to either clean up their act or die of starvation? Granted, if they're mentally unstable they should get the help they need, but otherwise, why help them?
     
  18. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    14,276
    Likes Received:
    5,234
    There *are* jobs out there for homeless people with psychological diseases. Just because they can't think properly does not mean their *physical* talents can not be harnessed for work. There are many jobs which these people could perform. They could be like modern-day teams of horses which pull stagecoaches or even single-occupancy vehicles. With a nice pair of blinders and a whip to their back, you'd be amazed at their usefulness.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now