Hitters Don't Like MMP???? HUH?

MMP is a bad ballpark for our home players. I always agree with Bill Worrell that it always seems to be the road team that takes advantage of our short porch than our hitters do. It's not the ballparks fault that our hitters don't go for the short porch enough, but it's just not a natural swing for a lot of our hitters. It always seems like we're the team that gets burned by our short porch at MMP, than the other way around.

I tend to hold the belief that a pitchers park is more often than not going to breed a better team than a hitters park. Look at Coors field. No good pitching can come from there. Look at the Phillies new park. They're struggling tremendously. The Rangers for a long time have struggled in their home park despite putting up a lot of runs. Look at the Reds since their new ballpark. They've never been a playoff contender coming into September.

Now look at the consistent pitching parks.

Giants park. They're always a perennial contender for the playoffs. Turner field for the Braves is another good example. Heck even the Padres this season is a great example. They have a great pitching staff, and have since taken advantage of it by making a great pitchers park for them to pitch in. They're in perfect contention for the playoffs. SafeCo field for the Mariners since they left the SkyDome have been a playoff contender every year barring this season.

Offense comes and goes, but when a team struggles to put up runs, those deeper ballparks will save a team a few games from short 325 foot flyballs that end up being homeruns in our ballpark. And you know we've lost quite a few games in late innings because of flyballs that look routine just barely making it out our park. And we've only made the playoffs once since moving to MMP, while still having more than enough talent and pitching to get us there, while perviously in the Astrodome we were playoff bound almost every season in the 90s.

I don't blame the ballpark for our lack of success in just getting into the playoffs, but I do hold the philosophy that a good home team will figure out the gaps in a pitchers park more than a home team in a hitters park where both teams have an advantage. Good teams breed good pitching and defense in a pitchers park while managing offense during those stretches when they're hot and manufacture runs during those dryspells in low scoring affairs, while relying on their defense and pitching. You can't do that in a pitchers park.

Not that it'll ever happen, but I'd bet if our walls were pushed back to a pitchers park setting, our chances of getting into the playoffs would increase a lot.

 

Its funny that you include the Padres example, because I'm pretty sure that ALL of their hitters (esp. Giles, Klesko and Nevin) HATE the new ballpark's dimensions.

I actually think part of the reason why they're so good is that when they go to other ballparks, they seem so small, that their guys jack it out of the park w/ ease.

In the end... good pitching will win anywhere (except Colorado)... and the Astros only playoff year in 2001 was because of the good consistent pitching they got from Oswalt, Miller, Dotel and Wagner.

Likewise, guys like Miller and Oswalt (who had never pitched in the Astrodome) have GREAT career numbers at MMP, because they've done just what you suggest they do... they've learned how to take advantage of their ballpark.

Additionally, the Seattle and Atlanta (of the first half of the season) examples show that big ballparks, and BAD teams, are the WORST combination. At least teams like Texas and Colorado put up a fight in their games... as they try to outscore the next team.

In the end, the ballpark won't make much of a difference... its the overall offense and pitching that leads teams to wins.

 

Good thread guys. I like it better here when we are winning!

 

Great pitching teams come from hitter's parks, and great hitting teams come from pitcher's parks.

 

My point is it seems like we get burned by our short porch at home more than we use it to our advantage. It's not the parks fault but, how many times have our guys given up a homerun in the late innings that just barely goes out of the short porches on both sides?

Thought of another example of a team with a pitchers park.

The Marlins, and D-backs.

Yes you need a great team to be a playoff contender, but really how many playoff contenders have won lately in a hitters ballpark? Now how many in a pitchers ballpark?

D-Backs, Marlins, Angels, Yankees, Braves, Twins, Blue Jays. To my knowledge these are all pitchers parks these teams play in. I just don't think it's a coincidence that teams that have won the World Series since the 90s have pretty much all won in pitchers parks, or the fact that almost all perennial contenders to get into the playoffs play in pitchers parks.

Actually my only real doubt about which park is a pitchers park is Yankee stadium, and even then you can make an exception for them considering their enormous payroll.

 

I don't think the Twins play in a pitcher's park:

a.) the white roof makes every fly ball an adventure.

b.) the turf is as fast as it gets, letting ground balls find holes before the defense can get to it.

c.) it was nicknamed the "homer" dome because of its tiny dimensions... they couldn't make it any bigger, because essentially it was a football stadium being coverted to a baseball stadium... think Reliant (with one whole side of its seats folded up) and you get the metrodome.

I think a lot of the reason why you have yet to see good teams come from hitter's parks is that they haven't been around that long.

Camden Yards was considered a "band box" when it first came into play... now-a-days, it would be considered a fair park compared to some of the tiny ones out there.

The Braves and Giants are two of the few teams that purposely decided to build new pitcher's parks... but I still think they would have been successful elsewhere. Most of the other teams you listed play in more "fair" ballparks, not "pitcher's parks".

And, Arizona is more of a hitter's park (because the ball travels well there)... but when you have Johnson and Schilling, you're always going to be in a "pitcher's park."

I still think MMP plays more like Fenway, than a Coors or Arlington. It has a short porch to left, but pretty much everything else is fair.

I also agree with you that more opposing teams take advantage of the cheapies than we do... and I also think it has to do with the fact that when guys on the Astros hit em out (as long as your name isn't Ausmus or Everett)... they REALLY hit them out.

 

The D'Backs and Angels both had fantastic offenses the year they won the title.

The D'Backs are remembered for Johnson-Schilling - but the year they won, they pounded the crap out of the Yankees on offense, and only two mind-boggingly horrible moves by Brenly kept them from finishing the Yankees off in 5 or 6.

 

The bottom line is that Minute Maid Park is a silly ballpark. It's a nice ballpark because it has been built within the last 5 years, but in terms of playability and dimensions it's clown-like. I hate the dimensions and features of the "juice box".

 

i doubt it is feasible, but i would like to see them move the crawford boxes to straight away center and remove the idiot hill and pole.

 

Impossible... the "Crawford boxes" are not just about having extra seats in a ballpark... and if they were in CF, I doubt they'd ever get sold out (in fact, those seats in dead CF, on the mezzanine deck, are hardly ever filled)

Its about having seats that offer a vantage point that you can't have anywhere else in baseball (maybe Fenway's monster seats now compare... but that's only like 2-3 rows of seats).

I agree its frustrating when pitchers pop fly one into the seats... if anything, maybe they could just raise the wall out there so that the seats are more even with the back brick wall... and the railroad track.... but even that seems unfeasible (and it would also start robbing "legit" HR's... with a wall that high).

Eventually (like in 10-15 years), the park will get a slight remodelling, and you may seem somehthing drastic... till then, we'll all just have to deal w/ it.

 

Then they should raise the wall to a similar size like the Green Monster, since they can't extend it.

 

Who cares that MMP has silly dimensions? They affect both sides the same. And it's really a great park to watch a game at, the way they have the seats configured and just the asthetics of the stadium.

Kent's a big baby to cry about a home stadium that has significantly inflated his numbers in the last 2 years. His BA, OBP, slugging, and OPS are all much higher at the juice box than on the road, and he's going to miss it when he's gone next season.

 

Hasn't been bothering the hitters this week.

I think it was a lame attempt at an excuse for not playing with fire all year.

GO PHIL GARNER !!

DD