has the citizen's united ruling backfired on republcans

Conservatives and particularly libertarians are swigging champagne. They don't believe in democracy anyway.

At most they believe in the type of democracy we have in large corporations. If you have a million shares you have a million votes; if you have ten shares you have ten votes.

It will take a while longer, but a tremendous backlash will come against these elitists.

 

link?

 

And of course, none of what you proposed addresses PACs at all. Which, you know, is what McCutcheon is about.

As for the Tea Party? I've talked about this, and this is one thing that makes me just roll my eye at the left. I hate the Tea Party. I think they're lunatics, that their policies are completely wrong, and that my philosophical viewpoint and theirs are almost totally incompatible. But the accusations that they are astroturf, that somehow they are fake and that they don't represent the legitimate feelings of a good chunk of the American people? It's absurd, and utterly disrespectful to them. And it completely represents the weaknesses and absurdities of those who think that more democracy, more representation, will somehow fix everything. I have seen so many people crow about how America has no third party. Newsflash: we have one. They're completely bonkers. Because that's how most third parties are.

 

UTFY.

 

Is this a distinction between people bisect their sandwiches and those who eat it whole?

 

HaHa your ccfans life has been devoted to your anti-democratic ideology. It has hundreds of links.

Another plus is that it further limits voter turnout as folks realize that it is useless to vote or even make their $20 contributions to candidates or causes.

Congrats libertarians and conservatives, but your day is coming.

 

HaHa your ccfans life has been devoted to your anti-democratic ideology. It has hundreds of links.

Another plus is that it further limits voter turnout as folks realize till their rage grows much greater that it is useless to vote or even make their $20 contributions to candidates or causes.

Congrats libertarians and conservatives, on your S.Ct voting your interests, but your day is coming.

 

Yes! Rise up my sandwich cutting brothers, rise up!

_____________________________________________________________

Seriously though, I can't wait to eat the rich. To quote Lucy Parsons:

"Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth."

and more fittingly

"Let every dirty, lousy tramp arm himself with a revolver or knife on the steps of the palace of the rich and stab or shoot their owners as they come out. Let us kill them without mercy, and let it be a war of extermination and without pity"

If the government wants to return to the standards of the gilded age, they should be prepared for the dissent of the gilded age to return as well.

 

Wait - how is McCutcheon about PACs? It was about the right to give to more individual candidates directly.

Amusing and ridiculous side effect:

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/...aign-finance-donations-mccutcheon-105320.html

Turns out lobbyists are pissed because now they realize they have to give more to buy their influence. They aren't even pretending that they have to throw money at candidates to buy influence any more. I love this quote:

“For the lobbying community, it increases the cost of doing business,” said David Rehr, a former association executive.

 

My mistake. He wished to donate to both individual candidates as well as PACs, I thought it was just the latter.

And as for HamJam's masturbatory fantasies: kill the rich if you think it'll solve anything. There will just be a new one to take its place.

 

As Socrates said to Zopyrus, "You know me sir".

Certainly I fantasize about people getting angry enough with the lies they are told and the ways they are manipulated, controlled and taken advantage of by the government and the corporatists, that they refuse to abide it any longer. I will readily admit to that.

As far as the Lucy Parson's quotes, I am certain she does not think killing the rich will equal liberation, rather she thought a populous armed, angry and radical enough to kill the rich would be an ungovernable people. And if the people become ungovernable, then the corrupt and parasitic government and economic structure that takes advantage of them on a daily basis would cease to be able to continue.

I can't think of anything more desirable to fantasize about frankly...except maybe the best ass thread in the hangout...maybe it is time to go necro that. Mmmm...necro ass thread...graaaaaal.

 

More of the same BS reasoning. Sure it is their right to voice their opinion, but not the mega donors are screaming at 130 decibels while the average citizen has just a peep. This is by far a greater loss for freedom of speech than any amount gained.

 

The funny thing is the rich cannot actually vote 10 million times, but there are plenty of people who would vote against their self interest for the rich.

 

Tea Party people are the astroturf of the Koch Brothers.

People are easily manipulated with effective disinformation. Pretty much the entirety of the American economy is glaring proof.

I have no respect for a lot of people with hypocritical views, including my own brother.

When I'm watchin' my TV
And that man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts can be
But he can't be a man 'cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarettes as me

-1965-

 

People don't primarily vote for their economic self-interests too, they vote for what they believe are their morals and social values, something which is all too forgotten. And it's not just a conservative thing, it's a human thing - or do you laugh at rich people who vote for tax increases?

Right. Because there's no way people could sincerely believe in the value of a smaller government, or believe that our society is in moral decay and that Christianity can stop it, or believe that Barrack Obama's foreign policies are making America look weak in the eyes of its enemies. You have to be manipulated to believing that.

Statements like this show the hypocrisy of democrats - because they like to delude themselves into believing that the people will always support their policies and values, and then when they find out that the people don't, they have to claim manipulation rather than accept the harsher reality. Marx touched on this perfectly in his 18th Brumaire, and it still holds true tdoay.

 

Whereas conservatives are saturated in leftist philosophy throughout academia, the culture, and the news media, the left isn't exposed to the alternative point of view unless they seek it out.

As such, we understand our opposition far better. We understand they are motivated by a desire to control individual behavior and redistribute wealth, in the name of equality and social justice. The tools they use to achieve these ends are mandates, prohibitions, taxes, and subsidies.

Charles Koch will tell you quite explicitly what motivates him. Namely, the maximization and protection of individual liberty. The left doesn't accept or understand this. Instead they paint a caricature of an opposition motivated by greed and bigotry. Witness Harry Reid going down to the Senate floor every day maniacally accusing the Koch brothers of being "un-American".

 

You are confusing individual liberty with individual wealth. On top of that you are blind to see the liberty the left gets from equality. For me redistribution of wealth in an attempt to better society as a whole is actually quite liberating.

Convincing people your motivation is not greed is a hard sell when your liberty equates to money, especially when you have ~$30 billion.

 

Why would people actually want more industrial pollution, less regulation of financial markets that bring failure, recession and depression into play, more uninsured people that delay medical treatment until they are in publicly supported emergency rooms, unregulated gun markets that edge closer to daily massacres, elections bought by the rich who only care about their personal scoreboard, foods that are uninspected and unsafe, drug shills selling ineffective hope for profit, colloquial voting laws that disenfranchise races or creeds, denial of rights for millions of generationally invested immigrants, denial of rights over sexual preferences, etc. etc. etc.

Jesus Christ as I understand him, promoted humility to the point of selflessness, acceptance of all people as children of God and non-violence to the point of self-sacrifice. Show me the righteousness of your tea Party principles in comparison to that and I won't call you a hypocrite, show me how Tea party Principles promote a better future for the preponderance of voters and I won't call you the duped astroturf of the 1%.

The crazy crazy thing is the total Orwellian disconnect between the expressions of politics and the stated principles of the religion.
The reverence for avarice and greed, the intolerance of the differences between people, the acceptance of violence, the very fact that the religion is about about banding together for the greater good over the acts and desires of the individual. The culture of the US in 2014 is the polar opposite of Christianity.

I'm an agnostic atheist but it trips me out.

 

not sure you know what liberty means.

liberty

freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.

You getting money from others by force is not liberty for anyone.

 

The truth is, conservatives are generally concerned with the "self" and they contort and rationalize the Bible to support their self interest.

But that's just human nature, most organized versions of churches do the same thing. If Jesus was about anything he was about overcoming human nature, the civilized over the animalistic, to achieve a more rewarding life for people as a whole.