R95, Hermione was sometimes early on. Spoiler warning . . . . . .. . . . . .. . . . .. Neville is frozen. Hermione on the train.
I'm afraid I can't make an argument as to how, in particular, they are jerks because I don't have the book anymore. I just remember feeling like they were jerks and never got called on it. It is funny though that there was no reaction to my charge that the antagonists are ridiculous in their unidimensional evil.
Yeah, that was hilarious. I have no problem with that either because it is, for all intensive purposes, a set of books directed towards kids. It's no different than Star Wars. Also, I'm not sure about the fourth one, but I may understand that it's not so black and white. I don't think that the 3 main protagonists do anything that should cause any more condemnation than what they already get. In fact, I think that it sends a good message that no matter who you are, if you break the rules, there are consequences to pay. The stuff that Joe Joe mentioned were either done for the overall good (freezing Neville) or they were called on (Hermione wasn't well liked by Harry and Ron in the beginning). BTW, I'm not railing on Christians at all in this thread. I may disagree with those who've read the book and condemmed it for being evil, or what have you (I even think you're an idiot ), my main problem is with those like my brother who haven't even read the book and are condemming those of us who have, and don't share the view that they are evil.
As a christian, I'm indifferent about it, .....mainly because the movie is a movie. Too simplified in my mind. I also can't wait to see LOTR, and Attack of the clones.
This is somewhat unfair since you have only read the first book, but whether Snape is good or evil is one of the more intriguing plot lines throughout the first four books. As you might remember from the first book, everyone thought Snape was evil and out to get Harry, but he was really protecting Harry from Quirrell. Since Dumbledore vouches for Snape, I'm guessing he will turn out to be good, but he is definitely a complex character. There are a number of other complex characters in the later books, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. Back to the main topic of the thread, I wonder what the people who don't want their kids to read Harry Potter do allow them to read, as most classic childrens literature involves magic, Satan, witches and wizards, talking animals, etc. (Snow White, Peter Pan, Pinoccio, Wizard of Oz, Cinderella, Winnie the Pooh, and on and on). I guess they could have them memorize the Bible, kind of like the Taliban with the Koran.
"Christians who think they already know all they need to know about Harry Potter would do well to THINK AGAIN. Readers of my book are consistently surprised at what they DID NOT KNOW about Harry Potter -- and the benefits they gained by informing themselves. Christians are divided over this issue, but the answer is not to side-step around it. We need to make the most of the unprecedented opportunities Harry Potter affords us. I show you how you can, whether you end up pro or con on Harry, while maintaining unity and civility in the body of Christ. If you are firmly set against Harry Potter, I won't try to dissuade you, as that is one biblically viable position. However, I will offer you facts to shed light on false rumors, help you protect your kids from real-world occult, help you understand the stories without having to read them, and help you explain your decision to your kids. If you are a Harry Potter fan, I will explain how this can be a biblically viable position and give you insight to ways you can profitably use these stories. I will also give you insight that will help you deal with the accusations and suspicion you or your children may receive from Christians who oppose Harry Potter." --Connie Neal, author of What's a Christian to do with Harry Potter?
Many of this thread's contributors are right. How can you focus on just 'Harry Potter' and not give any attention to the countless other 'waste-of-time' activities that don't glorify God? Everyone agrees that the Bible is outspoken against wichcraft and sorcery because it is obviously related to satanic activities. But to spend much more time and effort to condemn these stories and not as much time on other stuff sends a poor message. Something like, "As long as what I'm into isn't blatantly satanic, it's ok." (i.e. Heavy Metal vs. "normal" rock and roll). I've read the aplogetics site that finalsbound has quoted from, and they give a good example of how Christians should handle these kinds of situations. The example is about eating meat offered to idols. Should you or not? The answer is it depends on your situation. There is nothing wrong with eating that meat as long as you understand it doesn't matter what you put into your stomach. What matters is what you put into your mind and "heart". But if their is a non-christian or a weaker christian that will have a problem with you eating it, then you shouldn't. Your testimony is more important than your diet. So in relation to Mr. Potter, if you or someone you know will have problems with you giving Ms. Rowling your patronage, then don't do it. Your testimony is more important than your entertainment. (I'll reserve my view concerning the storyline until after the 7th book comes out. Supposedly, Ms. Rowling will make the stories "less innocent" with each new book.)
BK I don't think HP violates Christian beliefs. If one takes witchcraft seriously, it can be constrewed to be against Christianity. Almost every movie has a couple of sins in it which is why some Christians avoid them altogether. This doesn't cross my line or come close to it. The Christians I know that wouldn't bring their kids to this movie do so because it makes out witches to be normal people instead of evil. If one believes witches are evil, this movie would be seen as propaganda trying to lure good Christian children into the dark arts by making witchcraft look cool and innocent. As far as one dimensional villains, Snape isn't one dimensional. There are plenty of evil people in the world that would try to take it over if they had you know who's power. The movie was too short to develop deeper characters.
is there anything left to be said here??? unless i'm mistaken, everyone on this board who claims to be a Christian has said they currently have no problems with the harry potter phenomenon. mr gootan put it best...if you let the storyline control your life such to the degree it affects your ability to witness to others about your relationship with God, then it's a problem. otherwise, it's a harmless story that's quite entertaining and really imaginative. rimbaud -- i've never come across the Christ as a magician imagery you speak of...can you cite any authority for that??? i'd like to read about it. the best example of something similar from the Bible comes from the Old Testament when God squared off with Pharoh's magicians through Moses...that's some cool reading, whether you accept it as truth or not.
Max, Jesus the Magician by Morton Smith is a well known, albeit somewhat dated, work about the literary examples. Magic in the Roman World: Pagans, Jews and Christians by Naomi Janowitz deals with general thoughts of the time. As far as images: Many renditions of the Raising of Lazarus depict Christ with a wand (Lateran Sarcophagus, C. 340) The Trees Sarcophagus, c360 with other miracles. Some glass bowls show more wand-wielding miracles. Moses is shown with a wand in Catacomb of St Callixtus in Rome from the 4th century, among others There is a sarcophagus, c. 325 that shows Peter's Water Miracle and he also has a wand, also the Catacomb of Commdia, etc. There is no one book for these images, but if you look in general early christian art survey-type books, you should be able to find them. Work by Thomas Mathews out of NYU follows these lines, but it might be too art historical for your interests (he is basically critiquing the history of art historical approach in regards to early christian art). There is some speculation, in general, as to the Adoration of the Magi really being a kind of acceptance (by the strange, farther eastern magicians) of Christ's superior magic. This has only been pieced together by different accounts of magi, christ, etc. In this way, their "presentation" of gifts to him does not act to merely give gifts, but it acts as them giving up implements acquired through their inferior magic, in light of the superior. There is much, much more and it is all very interesting, so I will just have to leave it here.
thanks for your help!!! my understanding of the magi from the east was that: 1. it fulfilled prophecy 2. and spoke to the idea that this was not just a Savior for the Jews, but for the entire world no doubt that we see in the Book of Acts and the Moses/Pharoh story, the theme of God's magic being superior to others. interesting stuff...thanks again!
How many books will there be in the Harry Potter series and how many have been released so far? My prof said J.K. Rowling (sp?) planned to write 7. I don't see why she would stop writing if the series is so popular.
The idea as she originally conceived it was for the series to be 7 books, one for each year of wizard school. Now it is certainly feasible that Rowlings might want to continue the series after that but the plan is/was 7. Four books have been released so far. There's been a bit of a delay for the 5th book because Rowlings spent a lot of time with the movie making sure it was the way she wanted it. At least that's what I have heard...
