[Harden]Was this a flagrant foul?

Like i mention in the other thread, it's a flagrant foul. Smart was just trying to sell a flop for an offensive foul by creating contact, put his face too close and got hit by Harden's elbow. Very unlucky sequence of events, and Harden should have just called a time out almost cost his team the game.

 

I would say yes, if it had actually connected. I'd like to see his face tomorrow for bruising.

 

Good call, Harden doesn't need to be swinging elbows like that. Get rid of the ball or sit on it. That play potentially could have lost us the game.






But it didn't

 

Dude does not think it was flagrant, it was a clear offensive foul but Harden wasn't trying to knock the guy down or anything because well, that would just be stupid to do at that stage of the game. Plus, Smart was basically draped all over him.

If the NBA called that a flagrant back in the day then Karl Malone wouldn't have had a career.

 

If it had happened to James I'd be screaming for the call.
Here's what the refs have to work with.

Section III. - Fouls
f. A flagrant foul is unnecessary and/or excessive contact committed by a player against an opponent whether the ball is dead or alive.

Section X - Swinging of Elbows
A player shall not be allowed excessive and/or vigorous swinging of the elbows in swinging motion (no contact) when a defensive player is nearby and the offensive player has the ball.

Section IV. - Flagrant Foul
b. If contact committed against a player, with or without the ball, is interpreted to be unnecessary and excessive, a flagrant foul—penalty (2) will be assessed.

Based on that, and what I saw, a flagrant 1 was the right call. I do think it was inadvertent, but Harden just has to be smarter there.

 

Yes. Per the rule book.

Per the rule book smart fouled James first though.

 

Exactly. Lots of morons on this forum. That clearly wasn't intentional
Plus, smart was playing very aggressive. Disgusting how pussified the NBa and it's fans are.

 

So is it correct because Harden didn't call timeout or its because it actually was a flagrant?

You guys are ridiculous.

 

fwiw: The definition is "unnecessary and/or excessive". Not intent

 

It wasn't an elbow but Harden's tricep, I thought.

We should have called a timeout and/or Harden should of been smarter than that. He should have hugged the ball to his gut or held it at chest level with elbows out. The ball is way more secure there than where he had it. Holding it high with elbows out is asking for someone to stick their face in your face to draw a foul.

I understand why they called it flagrant though but it seemed a tab generous there, especially given the circumstances. I've seen much worst called as a common foul, even after review.

 

I know...believe me. There was a play at the end of the Warriors game, was it? Anyway, Harden was mugged and the refs called nada. But, you know, its the media darlings and all...I have to go punch something...

I'm back. I've learned to lower my blood pressure by realizing that the stupid zebras aren't gonna give James the calls he deserves late in games. That's just the way it is.

 

I am ok with Harden getting the worse end of that call. I thought Gordon should have held the ball instead of swinging it to harden in the corner. Then a TO should have been called. Well, moot now. We won.

 

Not sure if it was intentional to hurt.

But by the rule book, excessive swinging of elbow is a flagrant. That's definitely a big swing of elbow.

 

It was very generous considering how if you go by the letter of the rules then a foul should have been called on Smart before the flagrant ever happened since he had his arm on Harden. Bradley had his hands on Harden most of the night and if you go by the strict rules, these should ALL have been called fouls but the refs let them play.

Doesn't matter, we won. Harden should have called a timeout there, though.

 

Intent has nothing to do with the rules.

"Unnecessary and/or excessive" are the only words used.

 

sadly you are correct

 

Flagrant foul without a doubt. Pretty much textbook definition of a flagrant.

If you swing an elbow to clear space and connect with a jaw - it's a flagrant.

 

Probably be a lot more ppl saying it wasn't flagrant had we lost. Truth is easier when you get what you want.

btw: watch this for grins. Marcus Smart flop at the end, like he got shot out of a cannon.


Haha. That will be a flopping fine.

So,

• Isaiah pulls down Montrezl
• Trips Bev
• And Smart will get a $5k flopping fine

Sure glad Horford missed that. This BBS would have exploded, all night long on arguing that play ... plus the flagrant.

 

What do you not understand?

It was obviously a flagrant foul. The correct foul call was made by the refs. Harden was double teamed, and instead of flailing around, he should have called a time out.

 

It was clearly an offensive foul. The flagrant part of it is questionable.