You can but Golden State only occasionally does, at least they didn't last night, and when they did, Irving scored or got into the lane anyway more often than not. So . . . yeah, 2 way player, woo woo.
I agree with everything you said except Murray will be a beast IMHO. I would take Simmons or Ingram over him but dude will the shiznit.
He just got 41 put on him last night....Actually, Irving, Harden, Westbrook, McCollum and Lillard all got theres onKlay
Majority of the board gives credit to Harden for leading his team deeper into the playoffs then Tmac. How Harden is a better player. By that same measure I guess Klay is a better player then Harden. I'm arguing for the sake of argument. But I rather have Klay on the team then Harden, even though Harden is probably a better player. I'm simply not a fan of divas on the court, especially ones that play defense as if it were a disease.
Great offensive players always beat great defense from time to time. The real question is does Klay allow scrubs like Tony Allen to have career nights offensively when he's guarding them like Harden does. The answer is NO!
people that just look at a box score and think that tells the entire story of a game especially on the defensive side don't have much credibility
People who say Klay is a good defender without looking at any numbers (he sucks by all advanced metrics and from watching him) also have no credibility
People who keep repeating that Klay is a the best two way forward in the NBA don't even have a verifiable way of demonstrating it. What does a great two way player mean? What's the threshold? What if the net impact of a "two way player" is slightly less than the net impact of a great offensive player, is the two way player better? Based on what? Is there some conversion ratio between offensive and defensive impact? This is just a nebulous area for people who want to give Klay a ton of credit beyond being an insanely great shooter with a good work ethic (which I think is enough credit). I stand by what I always say (which also is not verifiable, for now) - if you put Klay on the Bucks, Nuggets, Jazz, he won't be the same Klay. Put Harden on those teams, and he'll be the same Harden. The mark of an impact player. And ironically, I always bag on Harden. Don't like his leadership. Very flawed superstar, but superstar nonetheless.
here we go with the advanced metric as if they're facts. Smh People like you act like they watch games and truly understand what they're seeing. If you don't think Klay is at the very least a good defender you without a doubt have no idea what good defense is and you have no business criticizing him
First will attempt to play defense.... Plays more within the team.. They can both shoot... I gave clay the edge... They can both score.. I give Harden the edge.. But it's the intangibles and with the things above of why I choose Klay.... My opinion, others may have theirs.. T_Man
I like klay, I really do. He's an all time great shooter. But that seems to be his only attribute offensively. To compare harden and klay offensively is preposterous. Play for all his brilliance can not facilitate or pass very good at all, he can't penetrate or take guys to the hole regularly, and if his shot isn't going in he is not being productive on the court offensively outside of being someone the defense has to guard in fear of him getting hot (which is worth something). His defense is severely overrated. I love how he is willing to accept the challenge and guards the opposing teams best perimeter player most times, but he isn't overly productive at slowing down the better offensive talents. And without the team defense behind him (which is draymond and bogut) that you can funnel your guy into then he gets beat regularly, case in point last night. I feel like he is just an elite 3nD guy, maybe the best ever for just that role which is why he shines so much. I like to think he is a danny green on steroids. Tbh is danny green was one of the best all time shooters he would be better than klay because he has better defense. Klay is just not someone you can build your team around, but is a perfect robin, one of the best robins to have. But if he is not coming off screens getting wide open looks, or his shot is off, he is not in the realm of hardens overall impact. And harden has plenty of warts. He is by far not a perfect player, but he is much better for our team and someone to build around. Out of any wing player I would want to pair with harden, I would rank klay right up there as the best fit.
I for one never said hes the best two way player. He's without a doubt a solid 2 way player. He shows this ability night in and night out. That's just not something to see too much of these days. And if anyone actually thinks hes trash defensively, I can't really take that person seriously. Using the replacement of a player route just isn't very credible to me. There's no player that plays the exact same way so the results aren't just as simple as saying he would be just as good or not. Players are who they are on their teams and learned how to be successful. I won't ever fault a player for being as good as they are no matter what team they are on as long as it contributes to a W. I've always criticized players that put up empty stats that don't translate to W's no matter they jersey they have on. You as a player still have to put in the work to show how good you can be. Nothing is given on the court. It's earned.
Sorry but advanced metrics look at every play, every game. They are facts, provided you completely understand what the metrics represent and what their limitations are. It is basically impossible for your "eye test" to come anywhere close to the accuracy of the metrics. "Eye tests" lead to lazy analysis, like seeing some vines of Harden getting backdoored and assuming it occurs every play, while alternatively not seeing Harden's solid defensive performances and offering up credit where it is due. "Eye Tests" and perceptions have grossly overrated Klay's impact as a player and grossly underrated Harden's impact as a defender, leading to absurd comparisons such as this one. Klay Thompson is nowhere near the caliber of player that Harden is. It's not close.
The crazy thing is, people like to say that Klay is robin... But when Batman went down, Klay carried the torch... Klay is not the best defender in the league, but at least he gives a damn and will put some effort in to it... Harden has exceptional skills, but as rocket3 stated, he's now a diva with an attitude.. T_Man
I'll never take advanced stats to be any true facts because in reality they're not. If you want to do so that's fine. We all have our own ideas on what the game entails and the results that occur. I do however see it as a tool or help quantify things that do happen on the court but its not something I'll just look at at the end of a day and just draw a conclusion from like many seem to do around here. And just to clarify, I think Klay is a very good player. A guy that put up 40 on any night and be able to guard players like WB at the same time and take on the challenge. Hes come a long way since hes first came into the league and has improved steadily. He has stepped up big in this years playoffs and at the end of the day that what you want to see from your best players. I won't criticize him for any of that. however with that said, I still think 2015 runner up mvp Harden is the better player who impacts W's in a bigger fashion.
tbh I don't even think this would be much of a conversation if Harden's criticism on the defensive end became what it has today.
The GARM was dead Glad I could get some healthy debates going this morning :grin: So again who is the better playoff performer - Klay "raining 3's" Thompson or Jim "turnovers' Harden?
Metrics are facts, they can be interpreted in different ways. Or they can be ignored and you can just puke up whatever word soup is best correlated to your strongly held beliefs and biases that have little to no rational grounding (this could provide you a path to the Presidency, so keep that in mind).
