I remember seeing this thread when it was first posted. It was a good laugh. Reading it now - still a good laugh. Some people on this site, I seriously doubt their intentions. Why come here and post again and again if you’re hating on Harden.
As much as I'll be critical on Harden during the playoffs for consistently playing a little (and a few times a lot) under his own standards of greatness, I have to be objective. Harden has and always will be better than Klay. And this isn't just because I really really enjoy Harden cookin' him so freakin often. The fact is that Klay is a borderline allstar at most. He's a great role player, has the occasional insane clutch playoff moments and mayb two out of seven good shooting nights overall in a playoff series. Other than that he's going to play solid defense and get you about 16-20 points. Part of his value comes from the LUXURY he has to focus all of his energy on defense because he doesn't have to carry much offensively. I know if Harden was on a team of similar players he still wouldn't be as good on defense as Klay (Harden's overall awareness is just so bad sometimes even though he'll also have surprisingly good defensive moments too), but most people value klay as if he's a Kawhi-level defender and some stud offensively when he's not. The man just spots up and curls off screens EXTREMELY well for the best shooters/superstars in the game, who demand constant double & triple teams. He can barely create shots off the dribble against average defenders, and can't at all against great defenders. Besides hitting the occasional miracle shots, he legit struggles in any scenario to put the ball on the floor (you'll see him pick up his dribble a lot in these scenarios, pivot, and look for steph or KD to do what he can't). Most of his game is predicated on knocking down created shots and doing basic drives to counter way out of position defenders trying to close out on him due to Curry's penetration and ridiculous range/floor spacing and Durant's constant demands for double teams on the block. Harden on the other hand consistently abuses average-good defenders and occasionally on the opposing team's best defenders in ways that send entire team defenses confused. Whether it be off the dribble, in pick n roll, off handoffs, in transition, and now off-ball screens, he's the superstar commanding double-triple teams because of how unguardable he can get when he gets in a rhythm. Oh, and we're seeing that playing alongside another superstar elevates his spotup game to comparable levels as Klay (though I'm anxious to see how good it can get if Harden will make even more of an effort to move off-ball more). So they are NOT equal offensively. If going by a 1-10 scale, Harden is at least like two & a half levels ahead of Klay offensively, while Klay's defense I feel is a smidgen overrated, being arguably two levels ahead of Harden (which has more to do with Harden's constant ball-watching than how great Klay's defense is). In the end, I've always believed that players like Klay and Draymond are the best ROLE PLAYERS a team could have, but they are always going to be borderline all-stars at most because so much of their strengths are highlighted (and weaknesses hidden) playing alongside superstar teammates. Half of Draymond's assists come not from CREATING shots for durant, steph, or klay, but just delivering the ball to them on screens with no real defender available to put any sort of pressure on him to make those passes because most of the other team's defenders are on the other 3. Most of Klay's points come not from him creating them but just waiting for his defender to leave him and choosing to shoot the open 3 or take two basic dribbles into the paint. If you take away Curry & KD I do think we'll see more results like their loss to kings. And as much as people give Klay and Draymond credit on their defense, it seems like even this takes a massive hit when their two scorers are out and they have to pick up the slack offensively, leading to their horrid FG percentages. Credit to them for always taking advantage of playing well alongside Curry and Durant but I wish I'd get to see if they play just as bad if Curry & KD sit more games.
Great points. Only thing I'd pushback on is the Ray Allen example. Allen was a beast in his prime that could do way more than simply shoot (though that was his best skill). He could get to the basket off the dribble and do a lot more crazy athletic stuff than most of us usually remember. But your point still stands. Can't think of a better equivalent though lol.
Lol. Warriors wouldn’t trade Curry or KD or even Dray for Harden. Insane to think so. Though I think you are on a Harden is the greatest player in nba history type posting spree. Informally/anectodally (queries on Reddit/warriors) Warriors fans wouldn’t trade Klay for Harden either ... even the ones that recognize clearly Harden is the superior player.
The Rockets also wouldn't be stupid enough to trade Harden for bad return like Curry or KD or Dray -that is awful value for a player of Harden's caliber. Insane to think so. Maybe Durant is arguable but he is getting up there in years, has durability concerns, and his disagreeable online personas are a really a distraction. Can you survey reddit for me to see if Rocket fans agree?
To illustrate that it's dumb to try to denigrate Harden by saying WELP WARRIORS WOULDN'T TRADE for him. We wouldn't trade him to them either - who give a ****.
Your post didn't come close to doing that. If that's what you wanted to say, just say it. Instead it was just a dickish response. Moreover, I didn't denigrate Harden by saying Warriors wouldn't trade for him. Quite the opposite. I highlighted specifically that Harden was the far superior player, but because of various reasons x,y,z the Warriors would probably think twice about doing a straight swap. Others responded noting that was crazy talk, so I provided some anecdotal support "from the other side"... which you further mocked As far as who gives a ****? Some people in this thread apparently. And I guess you?
It's dickish because the whole dumb argument you're espousing is dickish warrior sour grapes. Harden is playing better than anyone on the Warriors now, and is probably abstractly better than pretty much every single player n the Warriors except for Durant, arguably. Sure, maybe you can argue the Warrriors would rather hang on to ZaZa than Harden for continuity purposes . For all intents and purposes it's the same argument you are making with respect to Klay. But I don't know why you expect being the messenger of this here would not lead you to be treated badly. Or why making the exact same argument from the other side (that the Rockets wouldn't consider any Warrior an upgrade over Harden) is a really really mean dickish thing to say.
he'll trade Harden for Giannis now because he doesn't think Harden is good enough to win a championship as the best player but he also thinks Harden is too good to win a championship somewhere else
Probably because I expect intelligent posters to not be dickish and assholes. Isn't that, after all, what this board for a while has "prided" itself on, as opposed to the real GM message boards of the world?? You are in this thread, so you seem to care. Yet you continue making arguments that I'm not arguing? I'm not sure if you're really trying to make intelligent points or purposefully being dumb. For all intents and purposes comparing ZaZa to Klay is in no way close to an argument I'm trying to make. It's just dumb to imply so. So maybe you're being sarcastically dumb. Maybe you actually believe it... who knows. Why am I even on this tangent in this thread?? Because I made a comment that Harden is by far the superior player and best shooting guard in the league, and Klay maxes as a Reggie Miller type as the #1 guy... and someone for some reason responded to that saying "nonsense, Warriors would immediately trade Klay for Harden" (how they got here from my post, don't know) ... so I responded with some points about why that might not be so, even though Harden is clearly better. If you're not interested in the debate, why keep replying to it?
Treading carefully into this... I do think GSW coach and GM would trade Klay for Harden in a second. They'd say yes before we could change our mind. If we ignore things like contracts, etc, then it'd be an instant "YES!" Just because the fans wouldn't do it doesn't mean they have any idea how to manage a team. Harden worked with Westbrook and KD before, he could certainly work with all those GSW players that I don't like. He's a top 3 player this year, easily, Klay is what top 50? top 40?
No, it is cut and dry in real life. The Warriors and every single other team in the NBA would take James Harden over Klay Thompson.
And yet we have dumbass rockets fans who don't want him because he is "fat" lmao. I hate the Internet
Well "asianballa" thank you for confirming that you were one of the fools that actually entertained the belief that Klay was better than James "Mofo" Harden. Did you get that opinion from watching Sports Center? Are you a big fan of Lonzo Ball and think Kobe Bryant was better than Shaq?
