I know wish we had superman.. best player leads in pts assist rebound combined.. why can't he be the best defender on the team every night?
You are blaming Harden when it's players like Bev, Capela and Ariza who didn't do a good enough job of closing out. Here's play by play breakdown of every three pointer that Detroit players have made in the last game (I just rewatched the whole thing) : 1Q 6:58 Ish Smith makes 26-foot three point jumper : Beverly gets lost and doesn't close out 1Q 5:52 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope makes 23-foot three point jumper : Capela gets lost (Harden had to cover Drummond in transition) and doesn't close out 1Q 0:00 Beno Udrih makes 26-foot three point jumper : Tough shot over Gordon (not really anyone's fault) 2Q 3:54 Ish Smith makes 26-foot three point jumper : Harden gets lost and doesn't close out (OK, this one is on Harden) 3Q 10:40 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope makes 24-foot three point jumper : Beverly gets lost and doesn't close out 3Q 7:18 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope makes 24-foot three point jumper : Capela gets lost and doesn't close out 3Q 0:00 Marcus Morris makes 33-foot three point jumper : Tough shot over Harden (again, not really anyone's fault) So, one mistake out of 7 threes that Pistons made, and now Harden played bad defense? These are mistakes that result from lack of coordination while switching on defense, players should instinctively know who to cover in these types of situations, unfortunately we are not quite there yet. I guarantee you even last year when everybody was grilling about Harden's D, most of the time it was the team defense that broke down due to several players not knowing who to cover when the switch has been made.
That's not how they do it. They use a calculation too but it's a simpler less accurate formula. Look at this game: http://stats.nba.com/game/#!/0041200401/advanced/ Spurs won but NBA.COM says they had a worse ORTG and DRTG than Miami. It's not accurate. BREF or Wowy are better.
I´m not blaming Harden. This is a thread to talk about Harden´s Defense. That is actually the point of having this conversation. I love James, I schedule around rockets game, don´t try to look for other things. I´m pointing things and you have made your point too, since you like to rewatch I´ll try to post if I see something more of this. I disagree´with at least one of your evaluations, I don´t think James was covering Drummond in transition. But I won´t rewatch, let´s talk more tonight.
You do realize that the number of possessions in a game aren't always equal between the two teams? In this case Miami had fewer possessions. The score was close and Miami had a couple fewer possessions so even though SA won, Miami had a better pts/possession average. How does that disprove anything? Were you assuming that the number of possessions in a game were always equal? They aren't . Here's an easy example: Assume that team A defeats Team B 100-98. Also assume that team A had 82 possessions in the game and team B had 80. Team A's pts/possession would be 100/82 = 1.21 Team B's pts/possession would be 98/80 = 1.23. In this example, Team B would lose the game but have a higher pts/possession and ORTG than the winning team. If don't believe that the NBA tracks possessions then I don't know what to tell you. Not only do they track possessions, they track individual touches by each player during a possession. If you do acknowledge that the NBA does track actual possessions then why do you think that the NBA would use a formula to estimate possessions rather than just using the actual number of possessions? Do you think that the NBA stats guys are idiots? NBA Turnover Ratio is simply Actual Turnovers/Actual Possessions. It's a straight calculation. You can't get any more accurate than that. It's a calculation, not an estimation. TOV% is an estimate and it's way off. All you have to do is compare it with the actuals (TOV Ratio) and you'll see that it's off by 65% in Harden's case.
No, it's not. Did you even check their website? Directly from NBA.COM: TORatio is the number of turnovers a player averages per 100 possessions used. Highlights good scorers who infrequently pass the ball (i.e. Players who typically catch and shoot.) (TO * 100) / (FGA + (FTA * 0.44) + AST + TO) BREF: Turnover Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * TOV / (FGA + 0.44 * FTA + TOV). Turnover percentage is an estimate of turnovers per 100 plays. They CALCULATE possessions with a formula just like BREF and NBA WOWY do. You are literally the only person on the planet who thinks they don't and thinks BREF's stats are "way off."
This is where NBA.com is wrong...again. It makes no sense for the losing team to have a BETTER net rating. Here are the actual formulas again: basketball-reference: (team A possessions + team B possessions)/2 and then ortg/drtg stats.nba.com: team A possessions and then team A ortg; team B possessions and then team B ortg
He hasn't been an abomination this year and is actually putting consistent effort. Also, Jeff's defensive schemes are hiding him alot. It doesn't hurt that there is a much worse defender *Ryno* on his team to make him look better.
From the NBA stats site: OffRtg (Offensive Rating) Measures a team's points scored per 100 possessions. On a player level this statistic is team points scored per 100 possessions while he is on court. This statistic is also more exact than typical Player "possession based" calculations, because we calculate rather than estimate players' possessions on the court. http://stats.nba.com/help/glossary I don't know how much clearer it can be. The NBA says "we calculate rather than estimate players' possessions on the court". It also says that their stats are more exact (i.e. accurate) then typical Player "possession based" calculations (i.e. estimated ones). So, apparently I'm not the only person who believes that the NBA stats are more accurate than estimated ones.
Excuse me for jumping in. "More exact" is not necessarily "more accurate" depending on what "accurately" you want to measure. Team scoring while a player is on the court does not really measure how good a player is offensively, if that's what you want to measure. If Corey Brewer played the exact same minutes Harden played, then their OffRtg would be exactly the same. That does not mean it is an accurate way to measure the two players' offensive impact.
They are saying right there it's a calculation, not using "actual possessions" like you said The difference is that on a player level they calculate using stats only accrued while the player is on the floor, which is an improvement in that respect, but they still use some less accurate formulas (not appropriately accounting for rebounds) Either way it's still a calculation using a formula
These always seem to include a couple scores off live ball turnovers Part of the issue with the defense is actually turnovers
Their team ORTg would be the same while they're on the court, that's right. There's a separate calculation for individual ortg.
I was responding to aelliott's quote of the NBA stats site, aelliott seemed to assume that since this was a more "exact" calculation (which is true), it therefore was a more "accurate" way of seeing a player's performance (which is not necessarily true).
This where the Suns and Rockets are so different. The counter for a defender coming down from the top of the key to cut off the dive is to roll out to 10-15 range stop and pop (Amare feasted on this!) the defense already knows you're kicking it out or going all the way in so its a wide open shot.
