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Harden And The Top Scorers In The League Assisted and Unassisted FGs

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Air Canada, Jun 26, 2016.

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  1. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    The OP used numbers to show his argument, maybe you should too.
     
    #21 dmoneybangbang, Jun 26, 2016
  2. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    This is much better than your first post. How does unassisted scoring proves in favor of a player other than he is able to create his own shots?

    However, the percentage of his team's assists doesn't tell a whole lot either. A better stat would be the percentage of the team's points were assisted by Harden.
     
    #22 Easy, Jun 26, 2016
  3. rm365

    rm365 Contributing Member

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    The refs give him a whole bunch of assists whenever he goes off on one of those 14 ft attempt games.

    The problem is they might swallow the whistles more in the playoffs.
     
    #23 rm365, Jun 26, 2016
  4. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    It shows how much the offense relied on Harden.

    35.4% per basketball reference on the season, his highest of his career. Westbrook averaged 49%, a career high, playing with a healthy OKC team. Conley has a career high of 32.7% this season for further reference.

    The issue is we need better scoring options around Harden. We tried to build a defensive team with length and versaltolity who could hit an open shot off of a Harden pass and it simply didn't work out.
     
    #24 dmoneybangbang, Jun 26, 2016
  5. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    Where would I find the stat for % of possessions nobody else on the team touched the ball besides Harden? Seriously, not trying to be an ass... I'm really asking...

    Iso% isn't really the stat I want... cause I don't mind an iso - AFTER we've exhausted efforts to try to get a mismatch or a defensive lapse by passing the ball around...

    I'm talking, bring the ball upcourt, and burn the clock without getting anyone involved and not even letting anyone else touch the ball...

    Again, not trying to just be argumentative, I really want to know the number or breakdown...

    Personally, I think much of our problems came from lack of players being engaged due to lack of touches (ie D12) and inability to get into a groove (shooters)... in addition to Brewer just sucking - lol... and would like to see if if the data supports or dismisses this arguement...
     
    #25 kjayp, Jun 26, 2016
  6. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    nba.com/stats

    Go to the tracking stats and go to touches. Compare the Rockets to the rest of the league. Compare each teams players with the touches per game, time of possession, dribbles per touch and compare and contrast.

    I think you will find that lack of touches for our guys wasn't even close to a problem.
     
    #26 jordnnnn, Jun 26, 2016
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  7. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    Thank you! Not exactly what I was wanting, but what I was looking for may not be tracked... anyway, a good bit of info to factor in to the overall picture. :)
     
    #27 kjayp, Jun 26, 2016
  8. chandlerbang21

    chandlerbang21 Member

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    He isnt called ISO harden for nothing
     
    #28 chandlerbang21, Jun 26, 2016
  9. dmoneybangbang

    dmoneybangbang Member

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    I truly don't know. I am sure there is a way but I am not sure how much public access we'd have to Sport Trac or other such programs.

    I agree it would be great to know.

    I think there is some truth to it. D12's biggest issue is he is too turnover prone to consistently dump the ball to and his baffling insistence to not run PNR (his biggest offensive strength).

    The only other player who can do something with the ball was Beasley and Harden didn't have a problem including him. Everyone else seemed to have forgotten how to play basketball.
     
    #29 dmoneybangbang, Jun 26, 2016
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  10. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    It should tell you to watch more basketball.... Whose going to create for him while he's moving without the ball? Whose going to do it?
     
    #30 Air Canada, Jun 26, 2016
  11. OlajuwonFan81

    OlajuwonFan81 Member

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    You really think that he's thinking all these things in his head as he's playing? Give it a break already.

    Harden: Yea I'm not gonna pass to Ariza right now because then he will see the cutting Howard and the assist will go to Ariza....instead I'm going to breakdown the defense and then kick out to Ariza for an open 3; that way I get the assist.

    :confused:
     
    #31 OlajuwonFan81, Jun 26, 2016
  12. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    I'm giving the guy credit for playing the game inside of the game... he seems pretty smart about marketing his brand... trademark beard, high profile relationship, etc...

    would you rather believe that he set an all time record for turnovers due to low IQ or because he felt the team didn't have a shot and therefor worked his stats/brand?
     
    #32 kjayp, Jun 26, 2016
  13. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    And you're using random scenarios when you can also state even more of the other variety that happens more frequently.. I watch 90% of the Rockets games every year... That isn't the norm. :confused:

    I know the sequence of events you're talking about, but I think you're projecting negative motive and intent on Harden that doesn't exist. For example... Often in those end of shot clock isolation scenarios he's actually baiting defenders into over-helping, and he'll pass when he feels they've cheated inwards too much. You can watch many games a highlights were he does this exact thing creating a wide open late clock 3 for a teammate. Now not every one of those is a great decision and sometimes it does result in teammates having to take shots that are a little more contested than intended, but I think the idea that he's just selfishly forcing his mistakes on his teammates is rather unfounded. I don't really understand this constant attempt to paint Harden as a singularly selfish player.... He plays very unselfishly especially given the circumstances.

    Also, of the Top 10 in scoring, only LeBron and Derozan take a higher percentage of shots late in the shot clock than Harden, which sort of goes against the idea that Harden protects his efficiency by refusing to take bad shots late in the clock.:rolleyes:

    Your comprehension is weak... This isn't to say he's all that.... It's not a good thing... It's the real reason he has all the turnovers. No one else is responsible for a greater portion of their teams offense in the league.... No one else carries a bigger load.. Who else is gonna create offense or get a shot consistently? That's going to affect his TOs and his level of play on the other side of the ball.

    Also Harden wasn't the primary defender that game... Parsons was... Every casual just put that on him since that youtube compilation.
     
    #33 Air Canada, Jun 26, 2016
  14. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    ^ :) guess this applies
     
    #34 Air Canada, Jun 26, 2016
  15. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #35 Air Canada, Jun 26, 2016
  16. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Exactly... The answer hasn't changed.... Every other top scorer has a quality or star caliber playmaker, shot creator, or ball handler... Except Harden....

    ;) I'm all over it... Many people are just haters... They don't want to see facts and project the blame on whoever they like to for whatever perceived reason often of there own creation.
     
    #36 Air Canada, Jun 26, 2016
  17. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    so Harden had 84.6 touches and 52 passes - 62%
    Teague 65.4 touches and 47.4 passes - 72.4%
    Parker 61.6 touches and 42.8 passes - 69.4%
    Curry 79.9 touches and 32 passes - 40%

    context....

    I don't really think this says much...
    can't fault Curry... doin what he did set an all time winning % record...
    Parker and Teague had better options to pass to than Harden did...

    so I don't really think this stat means much.. imo...
     
    #37 kjayp, Jun 26, 2016
  18. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    It's not just to give him credit.... It's to show the problem and the real reason behind it which is somehow lost on many people... Harden is very unselfish and his scoring is needed out of necessity, but he's forced to score most of his FGs unassisted due to lack of other playmakers.

    And it shows he's responsible for more of a teams offensive production more than anyone.... More than anyone should have to... More than anyone could do and still succeed at the highest level... Or win a ship.
     
    #38 Air Canada, Jun 26, 2016
  19. CantGoLeft

    CantGoLeft Member

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    DUH! Harden's one elite skill that makes him one of the best offensive players in the NBA is driving to the basket. None of the players you listed are particularly good at driving to the basket except maybe LeBron. Another low assisted FGs player is Kyrie Irving @ 29% this year.

    Low assisted FGs is also an indication of high frequency of isolation plays which isn't always a good thing. Melo's unassisted FGs was 36% this year. Kobe was 32% in 2014-15 but was 45% this season because he took the 2nd most 3PA in his career.

    Guess which player had 24% assisted FGs back in 2011-12 and 31% in this year's playoffs?
    Lin with the Knicks and Hornets. Obviously Lin isn't in the same league as Harden but it shows Lin's best skill is driving to the basket.
     
    #39 CantGoLeft, Jun 26, 2016
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  20. Air Canada

    Air Canada Member

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    Who is going to assist him when he's moving without the ball and whose going to create offense for the team when he's moving without the ball? That's not on Harden... For that to happen.. that's on personnel and coaching.
     
    #40 Air Canada, Jun 26, 2016
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