Harden will be the only shooting guard to carry his team, sans another superstar, into the playoffs. Voters will notice.
Yes he has. You don't win a Championship with Fisher as your backcourt partner unless you can D-up both high scoring point guards and shooting guards. The same goes with the Lakers' now with Nash. Over the past 5 years Kobe has guarded Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Manu, Durant, Ray Allen, and LeBron on big possessions in regular season and playoffs. He's still the best 2-way SG of the last half decade.
You know Milwaekee's in the playoffs, right? Seeded 8th, just like the Rockets, and their records aren't that different. They're in a tight race just like Houston for the 7-9th spots. With a more experienced Boston team 1.5 games ahead, and 76ers in the 9th spot getting Bynum back. Who's the "Superstar" Ellis plays next to? I'm not saying Monta Ellis deserves it over Harden (but Harden doesn't clearly deserve it over Kobe, Parker, or Wade either). But Harden is definitely not "the only shooting guard sans another Superstar to carry his team to the playoffs." (Also, Ellis has always been an All-star caliber player on bad or dysfunctional teams. Thus he gets a bad rap. But every time he's had a decent roster around him, he's been an All-star player on a playoff team.) http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2751/monta-ellis
It's funny how much hate Ellis gets. Yet, most casual fans have never actually seen him play outside the playoffs when he was in Golden State, and definitely not while he was in Milwaukee. How many times have you watched the Bucks this season? Did you even know they were in the playoffs? If he was the first guard off the bench in OKC last season, similar to Harden, it would be "asinine" to think OKC wouldn't have gone just as deep. When has he ever played next to 2 players as good as Durant and Westbrook? He's played next to just 1 other player of that caliber once, for 1 season, and they went into the 2nd round. Again, the Bucks are in the playoffs just like the Rockets. Ellis is that team's best player. He's averaged over 24PPG twice in his career. He's about to lead an unimpressive roster with a coach who quit out on them into the playoffs. Monta Ellis is similar to Chris Bosh (pre-Miami), where the casual fan has only an idea of what he is through casual mentions on SportsCenter the very few times they're mentioned on SportsCenter. Because they play on outside markets on weak teams, homers of other teams have no clue how good that player actually is. But the second they have success because they finally find their way to a better team, where they no longer have to carry an offense single handedly for 82 games a year, people think they're perennial all-stars. It's actually hilarious. You can tell who's actually an NBA fan from how much they know about star players playing on weaker teams in, non-national TV markets. For anyone who hasn't actually seen Ellis play more than once this season. All you need to know is this: If the Bucks had Andre Bogut instead of Monta Ellis this season, the Bucks wouldn't be in the playoffs. They'd be right at the bottom of the league with the Wizards, with Bogut nursing another one of his 50 injuries. Instead, they're in the playoffs. That roster is literally awful outside Ellis.
I've seen enough of the bucks AND ELLIS OVER THE YEARS to know he's nowhere near the player harden is but lets just focus on this season shall we. Yes, the bucks are currently in 8h place but if they were in the west they'd currently be 9th. Second, he may not even be the best player in his own backcourt. Jennings and ellis both have similar stats and neither are shooting the ball particularly well but together they are formidable. Ellis himself has shot the ball TERRIBLY this year and is regressing it seems. And yes, I would take jennings over lin personally so I would have to say ellis is less valuable to his team because he's not necessarily the go-to guy every night: Harden is. Bottomline, ellis can't hold harden's jock and never could.
You're utterly delusional. Ellis might be a good off-the-bench spark if he could learn his role and grow a brain (or a conscience), but the Bucks' success is in spite of Ellis and his equally cancerous teammate Jennings (who's basically a slightly shorter clone of Ellis), not because of them. This isn't a case of casual NBA fans not appreciating a hidden talent; this is a case of casual NBA fans not seeing a bad player on a bad team. Anyone who knows anything about the NBA and isn't a huge Monta homer will tell you that Ellis is a perpetually low-efficiency chucker who has no positive impact as a primary offensive option.
Clearly. The only reason they've gone on their recent skid is because he hasn't been shooting well. Ellis has to play well for that team to ever have a chance in any game. Brandon Jennings, alleged seeker of a max deal, continues to rank only so-so by these sorts of metrics, and since the Bucks are a camera team, you can bet they know this. Jennings has recorded a ho-hum 5.8 drives per game, and the Bucks have scored just 1.06 points per possession on trips when Jennings does drive — one of the lowest numbers in the sample. Monta Ellis is both more prolific (about 8.0 drives per game) and a more efficient engine of team scoring (1.30 points per possession) when he does drive. Ellis remains an underrated offensive player in this sense. He can bend a defense in compromising ways, and his passes have always produced a higher-than-expected number of shots at the rim and open 3s for teammates. It makes you wonder how good Ellis could be if he stopped shooting so many long jumpers (24 percent from deep on 3.5 attempts per game is basically sabotage) and learned to play acceptable defense. http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=233486 That's not even a counter-point. All that states is that if the Bucks were in the West, they'd be right there battling for the 7-9th spot with the Rockets (even though the Bucks have a much weaker starting 5). In fact, that proves the exact point I made that Ellis is underrated, and could easily be a lead guard on an NBA playoff team.
We are talking about the Monta Ellis who is having his worst shooting season of his career by just about every measure? On the Bucks team who is 6-11 against the western conference? THAT Monta Ellis would be leading his team in the playoff hunt if they played in the stacked west? Ellis is thanking his lucky stars he doesn't play in the west or the playoffs would only be a dream. Jesus...
His current "role" and his "role" over the years has been to carry the load of a team's offense, on what has been underwhelming rosters. That's not his fault, it's entirely the GM's fault he's never played with an All-star PF or a bigger guard that can shoot 3s and run an offense (aside from the 1 time where Baron Davis was healthy and they upset a #1 seed in the playoffs). Actually, it's exactly that. The second Ellis opts out this summer, and joins a playoff team, everyone will change tunes on him being an All-star just like they did Chris Bosh when he was a Raptor or Chauncy Billups who faced the same criticism (shot too much, didn't know when to pass, too inefficient of a chucker). 1. See the stats I posted above from Zach Lowe's Grantland article, which runs in exact counter to your assertion that he has "no positive impact". Where you get that claim from, is ridiculous. If you want to have a real discussion about Ellis' positive impact on a basketball court - stop making things up out of thin air. 2. The way "efficiency" is calculated by NBA metrics often hurts guards who carry the load for their offense. If they're the only viable scoring option, they'll end up taking a lot of contested shots 3. Even considering point #2, over his career contrary to what critiques randomly believe, Ellis' efficiency rating over his career has never been 'bad.' In 2011, for instance he was during that season at times ahead of Manu, Igoudala, David Lee, Granger, and yes, even Tim Duncan. Many of those, who was far ahead of. The "Monta is inefficient" is just a fallacy fans like to take claim of because he takes a lot of shots on weak teams. The stats when analyzed correctly, run in direct contradiction to that claim.
I hope you are fully aware that the Rockets are only 11-19 in the West. You guys do realize, that both the stats, and the Bucks record run contrary to your beliefs? Before you reply, if I were you I'd consider actually looking up the Bucks record, Ellis' boxscore, and run it in comparison to other SGs who don't play with another All-star on their team.
No, Harden isn't carrying this team to the playoffs. I'm not even sure if the rockets are going to make it this year. It's like borderline right now. If we were in the 5th and above spot, then yea, I say he was carrying this team. But right now while harden is the #1 option and doing the most points, I see this run as a team effort. This year, as of right now, I don't think you can make an argument that one single player is carrying the team to the playoffs.
That's not even a counter-point. All that states is that if the Bucks were in the West, they'd be right there battling for the 7-9th spot with the Rockets (even though the Bucks have a much weaker starting 5). In fact, that proves the exact point I made that Ellis is underrated, and could easily be a lead guard on an NBA playoff team.[/QUOTE] the counter point is that if milwaukee was in the west and had our schedule they would be at the bottom of the freaking totum poll!!
The Bucks have hovered around the 8th-10th seed the last few seasons without Ellis. Their team has been roughly the same (minus Delfino, Bogut doesn't count since he's been injured.) This Rockets is nearly brand new with Harden.
Bucks: 6-11 against the West Rockets: 11-19 against the West And your assertion makes sense mathematically...how?
