I've never read any of I Fing's work, i've heard that Y Ming is a big fan though. Do you recommend his early material or his most recent efforts. And what does Hummus have to do with all this? Everyone take a deep breath----ahhhhhh isn't that better, JH take another one just in case.
LOL. We're just having a f-ing conversation here. We know this topic is controversial no matter which way you dice it. I would certainly like to meet I Fing someday. He's inspired alot of my work.
FB, you cultural relativism is getting very old. You cannot compare targeted killings of children to accidental collateral damage in military operations. You cannot compare the Israeli free press with the Arafat controlled media. Well, you can I guess, but you will just look silly.
It's all in the perspective. Palestinians are keeping score...the score is Israel: 2000 Palestine: 800 . There are plenty of civilians killed by Israelis in "accidental" collateral damage. Alot of these accidents can be seen as careless disregard for life. Israel has no problem sniping people in windows before ID-ing them as militants or bulldozing civilian homes with civilians inside in order to clear a path(e.g. Jenin) or sniping civilians out after curfew. There are horrible acts being committed by all sides.
This is exactly what I am talking about. You guys buy Arab lies hook, line, and sinker. The truth about Jenin is that Palestinians militants evacuated most the town before the IDF moved in. The homes and cars were booby trapped in an attempt to kill Israeli soldiers. The vast majority of damage came from these traps. When Israel makes a mistake or breaks an international law, everybody knows about it because the Israeli newspapers tell the truth. The Arab culture doesn't care about truth in the situation, so we never get a real picture from their perspective. You guys are dupes.
This is that cycle of violence spin arab apologists like so much, if they would stop this ..we wont do this, but its not that way. The Palestinians teach hatred in their schools and encourage youths to be suicide bombers. The Israelis are simply protecting their towns, schools, etc. and just want to be left alone. The real problem with Hamas is they just dont accept Israels right to exist. The following is an excerpt from the BBC TV program Hardtalk 20May 2003. Tim Sebastian BBC interviews Mahmoud Zahar( Hamas head Spokesman). TS..Question,,What you are telling me there are no circumstances which you will give up violence until youve pushed Israel into the sea? MZ,,answer,," I am giving it to you frankly..The attitude of Islam is to not accept a foreign state in this area." Hamas and attitudes like this must go before peace will come for Palestinians..No matter what concessions Israel makes , Hamas will never accept while Israel exists.
John Heath, what? I wasn't comparing terrorism to non-terrorism. I was comparing lying to lying and murder to murder. What do you call it when the Israelis take an innocent Palestinian civilian and march him in front of Israeli soldiers to knock on the doors of homes where suspected Palestinian Militants are at, and gunfire could be a result? That is using a human shield, and when those civilians die I call that murder. It's IDF policy and there have been articles posted on it in the past. I also wasn't comparing press with press, but leaders with leaders.
Trust me, I'm not arguing in favor of Hamas, at all. But Israel does far more than just try and protect themselves. Giving a Palestinian farmer the same amount of water to irrigate is fields, bathe, drink, and cook with as Israel gives to it's settlers just for drinking is not reprisal for terrorism. It's plain discrimination. Does that kind of oppression justify terrorism of Hamas? Definitely not. Does the terrorism of Hamas, justify Israel, using Palestinian civilian shields to lead the way into lethal situations, shooting foreign reporters in the head, or killing peace activists? I've posted on here that there are members of the ISraeli govt. who don't want to live side by side with a Palestinian state ever, not under ARafat, or under anyone else. I've posted the quote from Netenyahu on the boards before too. Both sides are irrational, murderous, and dishonest. I just don't like it when people turn a blind eye to one side's faults.
I didn't buy anything. I know it started out everyone was reporting, including our newspapers, that it was a large scale massacre. I know that was discounted later after reporters finally got inside but I "thought" some people had still died in the bulldozing that occurred there. I know that Arabs have a tendency to lie to over-dramatize the situation and tilt international opinion in their favor. I don't buy anything they say at face value. I also believe that Israel is not just committing "accidental" collateral damage and they have bulldozed homes with people dying inside because of it on many occassions. I guess it is an accident if your not being careful about what your doing.
