You're going get what you deserve. That's all I'll say. Easy to talk smack behind a PC when you're a fat inbred. Keep yapping
Israel is killing a lot more people than those simply taking arms against them. Israel is required to do what they can to minimize civilian casualties. Period. Your assessment of their innocence, based on their willingness to make peace with Israel after this hell they are being put through is over, is irrelevant. You are better off arguing that civilian deaths are regrettable and Israel is doing all it can to avoid it while trying to achieve its ultimate aim of dismantling Hamas. It seems that you recognize it is more and more difficult to make this argument, and so you’ve chosen to pivot to essentially “well, genocide is actually justified in this case since these people are probably all Hamas anyway.”
I feel bad for all the displaced @basso @saleem @Jontro @No Worries @jo mama @Rocket River red lobster employees
They are two different questions. Israel is required to only attack military targets. They do that. They aren't firebombing Rafah and killing a million people. The other questions are what happens after and how do you get there. The first depends on the second. Their willingness to make peace is not irrelevant at all. Anyone that takes up arms against them is by definition a military target. That isn't a difficult argument to make at all. They are minimizing civilian casualties. Revised numbers were released that show they are killing fewer women and children than previously reported and more Hamas targets. Their military:civilian kill ratio is not out of line with any other action against an enemy imbedded in a civilian population. Hamas is the group that has chosen to have the battle take place among the civilians, not the IDF. The IDF operates in uniform, from designated military bases. Hamas operates from civilian buildings among the populace, dressed the same as the civilians. Their entire strategy is to drive up civilian casualties in the hope that people like you will cry about the IDF enough that some more powerful actor will stop Israel, because they know that militarily they cannot hope to win.
Can you imagine instead of Hamas spending on that money on tunnels and rockets they could have made a bunch of red lobsters in Gaza
Of course people as a general rule have a right to defend themselves against anyone who is attacking them. Your projection of Palestinian people’s willingness to make peace in the aftermath is irrelevant to the question of whether they should be a military target today. That’s what I’m saying.
This only ends, someday, in the destruction of Israel or the destruction of the Palestinian people near Israel. Or one of the ethnic groups finds a new homeland. These people are never going to live in peace near each other. That's the history of humanity. The world has gotten pretty soft since the end of WWII with the U.S. led world order and all these notions surrounding human rights, certain conventions governing war etc etc... I don't see this 80 year kind of period we've had lasting forever. It'll get really, really nasty again at some point... 50 years, 100 years, 500 years..
Why would anything I say have any effect on whether someone 7,000 miles away can kill someone else 7,000 miles away?
We know that's false. They haven't even taken the steps they've taken in past military engagements. (just should make that known even though you were trying to be a smart ass)
It doesn’t. But you’re defending military actions that are killing thousands of civilians on the grounds that those civilians aren’t “innocent” and should probably be viewed like they’re Hamas anyway. Are you not? If that is the actual mindset of people who are in command of these actions, that undercuts your claim that they are doing everything they can to minimize civilians deaths,
There were and are many bloody wars with ethnic cleansing and atrocities since WWII. We’ve also seen very entrenched enemies able to make peace or at least learn to not be in a state of constant war.
Probably not much but then why should anyone care what protesters here say about Gaza yet a lot of this thread is people getting angry about pro Palestinian protesters and posters such as claims that they are in the side of Hamas.
It does look pretty bleak that these two groups of people can coexist. However, I think the vast majority of people on both sides just want to live in peace. The extremists, who want 'from the river to the sea' or total control for 'their' people, wield significant power and leave the majority with very little voice. Whatever voice the majority has is often ignored. What we've seen are the impacts of the actions mostly from these extremists. The media rarely shows the ordinary folks just trying to live day by day, week by week, year by year, or decade by decade. I believe most people don't want to be fighting, but those in control don't see a way out other than to fight, unfortunately. As people from thousands of miles away, we can only push for the extremists to lose power and hope that others, who can work towards peace, gain influence. It seems to me that the short-term solution (and by short-term, I mean over decades) is a two-state solution, given how far apart these two groups are. The other choice is essentially 'wiping out' one group, which means that the vast majority of people in that group who just want to live in peace won't be able to, because the extremists in power aren't willing to give peace a chance. So while it look bleak, the alternative of giving up on a co-existing as a 2-state solution is worse.
That's what I learned from history. The right leadership in the right environment brings peace or a stalemate, with the sides coexisting as neighbors or even under one nation, even after deadly atrocities against each other.
Even with this conflict there was a brief window that peace seemed possible. Extremists though on both sides had no interests in peace and did all they could to sabotage it. We don't know how things might've turned out if Rabin hadn't been assasinated by a Jewish extremists or if Arafat hadn't been scared of being assasinated by extremists on his side. As it is now the situation seems so intractable because so much of the debate is dominated by extremist and simplistic positions.
Or if the extreme right-wing in Israel didn't fund Hamas as a counter-weight to the secular PLO. The people deserve so much better than these extremist leaders. Sadly, as American diplomats and generals warn the current extreme government of Israel not to repeat their own mistakes after 9/11, those leaders seem to have too much hate in their hearts or don't have the ability to see outside of their narrow view to not repeat those mistakes.
