Green Energy: Democratic NIMBY's say no

Put them out in West Texas. There's tons of wind and not a damn thing to look at out there.

 

Nothing new, NIMBY Democrats in California banned new refineries along the coast and LNG plants as well.

 

I read recently t boone pulled back on his wind farm in TX.

Space Ghost you could probably find some articles on this happening in the Hamptons (Long Island, NY) too. It's not Repub or Dem, it's rich folks.

I agree these people need to rethink things. We need to explore all possibilities. I fact, if anything, it's made me rethink oil exploration. I mean if all people in Alaska are like Palin, I say let's pummel that state with oil wells.

but I digress.

 

Strangely, the GOP has the same problem with oil drilling. Floridian Republicans and Dems, for example, are strongly against drilling along their coastlines as are Dems/Reps in California.

Everyone wants someone else to produce the energy.

 

After all the disagreement that we have had over these many months, we finally agree.

Nobody (Rep, Dem or otherwise) wants this stuff near their home...but they all want the energy.

 

we've just taken the first step to a brave new world!

 

Because natural gas has become really cheap, wind farms just aren't going to be as profitable as he one envisioned.

Without natural gas being relatively clean and huge new reserves recently discovered, perhaps we don't need expensive subsidies for crap like wind and solar. If these alternatives can be competitive without subsidies, fine. But if they can't, let natural gas power America.

 

I've never understood this line of thinking. A year ago, oil was $150/barrel and natgas was far more expensive than today. Do these guys really make decisions based on short-term trends? It took a global recession to get to these prices - by the time these wind farms are ready, do people still think prices will be this low?

 

I think they're just waiting for a major advance in one of the technologies that makes the initial investment a little easier to absorb. At least that helps me sleep easier at night.

 

Natural gas is different. We literally have discovered gigantic new reserves in the US and Canada. Notice how oil has gone up in price this year but natural gas has continued to tank.

I think this combined with what looks to be a very long term recession makes the long- term outlook for new wind projects look pretty bad.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/07/14/natural-gas-could-brighten-americas-energy-future/

Natural gas: looking better all the time

There are objective events in the natural gas market that could substantially increase both the U.S.'s natural gas supply and use in the decade ahead. Here's the low-down:
Chief among these is an estimated U.S. natural gas reserve increase of 35 percent, due to new drilling technologies that are unlocking large amounts of natural gas from shale rocks, according to a new study by the Potential Gas Committee, The New York Times reported. The shale gas, or unconventional gas, is freed in a process called 'hydraulic fracturing.'

If all of that extra natural gas is able to be tapped, estimated U.S. natural gas reserves would totaled 2,074 trillion cubic feet in 2008, up from 1,532 trillion cubic feet in 2006, when the last report was issued, The Times reported.

Veteran energy/oil industry analyst Daniel Yergin of Cambridge Energy Research Associates, told Bloomberg Radio that, "The biggest innovation in the energy business has been unconventional natural gas."

A domestic energy source

Further, natural gas has what economists call a 'source advantage' over oil: An enormous amount of natural gas exists in the United States. There's no need to worry about the shifting political sands in the Middle East, Venezuelan autocrats, or other geopolitical factors jeopardizing the energy supply. Further, although natural gas can be shipped by large tankers, it's best produced regionally, or transported by pipeline.

Why hasn't natural gas accounted for a larger portion of the nation's total energy use? In cars, the ease and (before this decade) low-cost of gasoline kept it the motor fuel of choice. In electric power generation, intolerably dirtier coal is vastly cheaper. And up until this decade, climate change was ignored: Sustained efforts to reduce pollution and emissions will reduce coal's advantage over natural gas. In homes and businesses, particularly in the northeast U.S., oil was the established fuel, but that's changing: cleaner gas burners and those aforementioned oil shocks are convincing families and businesses to convert to natural gas, where possible.

Another area likely to reinforce the trend to natural gas and away from oil: large vehicle fleets, particularly mass transit systems, such as buses. Look for more systems to convert wholesale to natural gas buses, retiring diesel fleets. Get stuck driving behind one decades-old diesel bus and you'll understand why it makes sense to convert these vehicles to natural gas.

What's prevented even more access to shale gas? Natural gas' price. Natural gas traded Tuesday afternoon up 14 cents to $3.39 per million BTUs. Guy Caruso, a former administrator for the U.S. Energy Information Administration, told The Times natural gas prices would have to rise to $4-$6 per million BTUs to justify developing shale beds.

Energy Analysis: Natural gas can play a large role in the nation's move away from oil, and from dirtier energy sources, in all zones: residential, commercial, power generation, and transportation. Concerning electric power, renewable sources, such as wind and solar, continue to progress, but those two alone will not be able to displace carbon dioxide-laden coal's 50 percent market share at power plants: that's a market share that natural gas, along with nuclear power, can substantially cut. Meanwhile, homes and businesses can continue to switch to natural gas heat from oil, with considerable benefits to their budgets. Natural gas as a vehicle fuel remains more-complex: public fleet use will increase, but there's little likelihood of natural gas displacing gasoline as a primary civilian car fuel.


Bottom Line: It behooves the nation to use natural gas where possible, and reduce the nation's dependence on the dirty coal and unpredictable oil energy sources.

 

Funny that we never heard that from you until you had cause to bash the party that's been pushing green energy since the 70s while you've been supporting the party that's opposed it all your life. Yes, a very big proponent indeed.

 

With geopolitics the way it is, I think we have to reduce our deficit first before we're able to get off of an oil infrastructure.

I think gas will always find a way to creep around cheap prices from time to time. Even if global demand for energy increases... Part of it is self correcting forces, and the other part is because oil exporting nations desperately want to offload the stuff. Negative on the peak oil theory....

 

So you want it for free and also at no expense to oilmen. Also, you want a clean environment but with no regulations of the ones that dirty it. Got it. And you want it to make a ton of money. Okay, excellent.

Yes, you are a very big proponent of green energy. Gosh, if we had thought about doing it for free (plus profit!) we could have done this years ago!

The label I would put on you after that post wouldn't have anything to do with political affiliation. I'll let you use your imagination. (Hint: it is not revolutionary genius)

 

Very true. Natural gas has become so prevalent the US may actually start exporting. (Caveat - this is not a simple change at all)

Furthermore, I was at a talk with the CEO of Anadarko Energy and he was high on LNG - so high that he honestly felt that LNG cars might start becoming viable again. All because the quantities have skyrocketed.

As for wind - part of the problem with wind energy in the US is the distance involved to "users". Putting huge wind farms out in North Dakota sounds great until you realize you lose 25% or so just transmitting the power to the nearest major city. Europe does not have that problem per say.

 

Hence the reason we are converting our oil fired boiler in our house to natural gas this summer!

 

What I want to know is when can we start harnessing our own farts and converting them into enough energy to propel a small Segway.

 

cow farts are better


or so I've heard