The Big'O' would have to AVERAGE over 15 apg for his entire career AND not miss a single game if he was to even match stockton's record. That would've been extremely difficult in even today's game. Cousy played in a completely different era of basketball, its hard to say if he could be as good in today's game...sure he'd be great, but wouldn't you take Magic or even Jason Kidd(who is a actually a better shooter than cousy was ) over an pg thats only a little bigger than Iverson? Defensively he'd get punished by today's players.
No disrespect to Stevie, but how the hell does he have 7 votes for best PG ever? Did 7 people misunderstand the poll? Anyway, although I've only seen old video, heard stories, and studied stats, I gotta go with the Big O. He was one of those players that revolutionized the league and position. Now if it was best PG I've seen play, I might have to go with Magic.
it's funny how the big Celtics fan refuses to mention Magic Johnson. codell, from everyone I've talked to Oscar's offense was a lot like a SG. He liked to operate mainly with his back to the basket from the low post, much like Payton does. He overpowered most PGs down low, requiring double teams that he just picked apart from a low post position. imo, Oscar merely exploited an unprecedented size advantage for a gifted, all-around player. imo, Magic Johson is best ever. I think he was so good that it is disrespect to even acknowledge someone close enough to warrant defending Magic as your selection.
by contrast, Magic exploited his size advantage in a true PG way. He ran the best fastbreak ever, faced the defenses from the perimeter in the halfcourt to do more of the same passes that Stockton could, and proved he was unstoppable in the low block when he needed to take over. The guy was a genius on the court, as much as anyone, and it was obvious guys like Magic, Bird, and Stockton really focus on the eyes of the defenders, which allowed them to whiz passes past the defenders heads, by simply knowing where their teammates are, or supposed to be.
Steve is not a true Point Guard. At least he did not show he belong to this class of great PGs. I only have a chance to watch Magic, Stockton, Kidd, Payton,etc. From what I see, Kidd is the best in term of leadership & skill.
Oscar probably would have averaged 15 assists a game if they counted assists like they do today. Cousy won more NBA Championships than Magic and Kidd combined. ____________________________________________________ The triple-double master The Big O defined the achievement By J.A. Adande, Los Angeles Times Forty years ago, Oscar Robertson put together a season unique in NBA history. You want numbers? Peep the Big O's stats from 1961-62: 30.8 points, 12.5 rebounds, 11.4 assists per game. He averaged a triple-double. ''I think that's still the most unbelievable thing I've heard of, along with Wilt's 100 points,'' Magic Johnson said. You hear triple-double, you probably think of Magic. That's kind of like Elvis Presley and rock 'n' roll; he's the guy who popularized it, not the one who originated the style. Johnson produced 138 triple-doubles in his career. They call him the NBA's all-time leader. Like ''blocked shots,'' which weren't kept as official statistics until 1973-74 - after Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain's years of controlling the paint - the triple-double category will always be skewed. The term ''triple-double'' was coined by Bruce Jolesch, the Lakers' former public relations director who needed a way to summarize Johnson's penchant for recording double figures in points, rebounds and assists. If they'd bothered to keep track back when Oscar played, he would have put the number off the charts. He was just three-tenths of an assist here, one-tenth of a rebound there from averaging a triple-double in each of his first four seasons. In his rookie year with the Cincinnati Royals in 1960-61, he averaged 30.5 points, 10.1 rebounds and 9.7 assists. In 1962-63, he averaged 28.3 points 10.4 rebounds and 9.5 assists. In 1963-64: 31.4 points, 9.9 rebounds and 11 assists. When you add up the numbers and divide them over his 309 games, Robertson's averages for his first four seasons come out to 30.2 points, 10.7 rebounds and 10.4 assists. To Robertson, it was just about playing basketball, not posting numbers. ''I thought everybody played the same way,'' Robertson said. ''I was just trying to win. You did what you could to win. We didn't have a great basketball team, didn't have great forwards.'' That's where his emphasis on rebounding came in. And considering some of the centers he had to fight to get those boards, it's what he considers the most impressive about his triple-doubles. ''When I (started playing in the NBA), they only had eight basketball teams,'' Robertson said. ''You had Russell, Chamberlain - Nate Thurmond came on later - really great inside presence on rebounds. I think my feat was special, looking back on it.'' The assists came from reading the game. ''As a guard, you try to probe,'' said Robertson, 63, who was a three-time national college player of the year at the University of Cincinnati and led the Bearcats to the Final Four twice. ''If you play against someone and your man has got a mismatch, you keep going to it. When I played, you kept going to someone until he missed.'' And while handling all the little things, he still finished among the top three scorers in the league in each of his first seven seasons. ''When I played, I'm averaging 30 points per game, as well as the assists and rebounds,'' Robertson said. ''Today if they get 10 points, they think it's the coming of Jesus. If I'd averaged 10 points and 10 assists and rebounds, they wouldn't have said much about it.'' New Jersey Net guard Jason Kidd is a leading candidate for Most Valuable Player, in part because he led the NBA in triple doubles. He had eight. ''When you think about it - a triple-double every night,'' Johnson marveled. ''My little ones that I accomplished were hard enough. It's just amazing. I don't think he gets enough credit for that.'' At 6 feet 5, Robertson redefined the guard position. Without him, you wouldn't have 6-9 guys like Johnson bringing the ball up, or guards operating in the low post. Although he was Johnson's forerunner, ''They didn't play the game at all alike,'' said Jerry West, the former Laker guard and later executive vice president. ''(Johnson) played the game with a flair, a completely different kind of game. Oscar looked more methodical. He just ground people down. He was just a great player. He could do everything. He really didn't have any weaknesses in his game.'' In today's players, Robertson sees some elements of his style in Kidd and Kobe Bryant. Among the rest, however . . . ''Some of these players seem like they've never touched a basketball,'' Robertson said. ''Coming down, taking a long jump shot every time is not playing basketball.''
Bob* Cousy won 6 titles; Magic won 5. When you get to 5, that's enough to dismiss the "who won the most titles" talk. And how many did your number one pick "Oscar Robertson" win. We could also add that Magic was in 9 Finals to Cousy's 7, non when he wasn't matched with Russell. But the main point is that Russell won 4 MVPs in those 6 years that "Cousy Won." You can't use the argument that Cousy won a mere one more title than Magic did when Russell was their best player, and Magic was the Lakers best player. The Lakers won mostly because of Magic. The Celtics won mostly because of Russell.
It would be interesting to know which player would have won more titles if both Russell and Kareem weren't on each respective players team.
My only point is that people may not be giving Mark Jackson the credit he deserves. He's been a pretty good point guard.
Don't most all NBA experts say Magic extended Jabbar's career; regardless, I'll play along. As teammates, Magic won 3 MVPs to Jabbar's one. As teammates, Russell won 4 MVPs to Cousy's one. strange thing is, both Jabbar and Cousy won their last MVPs in the rookie year of Magic and Russell. I think we can safely say that Cousy would have won zero titles w/o Russell, since Cousy and Sharman didn't even get to the Finals before Russell, why would they have ever beat Chamberlain's teams?. There's a good chance Magic breaks through with an average scoring center in 87 and 88 when Jabbar wasn't that much of a factor, and the Bird/McHale/Parish juggernaut was winding down. btw: Magic accomplished all this by age 31. 5 titles 10 Finals 3 MVPs 3 Finals MVPs
Yeah...I was just throwing that out there for kicks. I've heard a few times that Magic wouldn't have won his 2-5 titles without Kareem. But at the same time it was Magic that won the 1st one by himself (game 6 of the Finals). I can't remember if Kareem played in game 7. As far as Russell, I had many debates about him being the greatest player period because he stopped other great players from scoring (hey, if Dumars could contain Jordan, Russell would have swatted a few of his "Airness's" shots!). Back to Oscar and Magic. Statistically, Oscar was the best. Cousey was the best leader. Magic seeded to embody all qualities of leadership and statistics (Magic could score if he wanted to, but he didn't HAVE to). It would be interesting to see Oscar on the Lakers during the 80's (in his prime). Oscar, Scott, Cooper, Worthy, Jabbar. Could they have won 5?
I'd have to put Magic, Stockton, and Oscar in a 3-way tie. If I was forced to choose just one I'd take Stock. Cousy was good, but couldn't shoot to save his life. I don't consider West a point... he was more of an off-guard. Lastly, why are Francis and Jackson even in this poll? I can see arguments for all the others, but voting for either of those guys seems bizarre to me. 1. Stockton 1. Magic 1. Big O 4. West 5. Thomas 6. Maravich 7. GP 8. Kidd 9. Mark Jackson 10. Stevie 11. Cousy
Well, Magic won 2 of those titles before Worthy and Scott were drafted. Those first 2 were pretty much Magic rejuvenating Jabbar and Wilkes who were doing squat with Dantley prior, and couldn't win more than 47 games. There are 2 other ways of looking at it. One, would a team with a <31yr old Magic (his age at first retirement) ever fail to break .500. Oscar team did 5 times. Two, would a 32-35 yr old Magic have won more titles with a 24-27 yr old Jabbar than Oscar did? Oscar and Jabbar won when Oscar was 32 and Jabbar was 24yrs old and the NBA's leading scorer. They played with Bob Dandridge and Lucious Allen, which is certainly as good as Jamaal Wilkes. They continued playing for 3 more years and won nothing; yet Jabbar was vastly superior at 24-27 than 32-35 when Magic teamed with him to stop Julius and gang twice before Worthy/Scott got there. And Philly was beating Bird and McHale, at the time.
That's right. In 81-82 the Lakers won the title, and then the next season they GOT THE FIRST PICK (Worthy)! I think that was the reason the lotto was enacted. Those dirty bastiges! Only the Rockets are allowed to do that!
HeyP, the Lakers were a playoff team the 3 years prior to Magic joining them (reaching the western conference championship in 1977). The Lakers were a good team when Magic joined them. You say Cousy never won without Russell, well Magic never won a championship without Jabbar. Your argument holds no water. Cousy came to a pathetic Celtics team and took them to the playoffs his first year. Magic never had to play on a bad team. Would Magic have made the Clippers a playoff team? I doubt it.
Let me get this straight, to make sure your argument even holds water with your beliefs. You are saying that Jabbar at age 33-42, is an equal to Bill Russell at age 23-29. Bob Finn* : Answer that question. Come on, I'm looking for a new signature...it might as well be you. Go ahead...tell me a 33-42yr old Jabbar is the same as a 23-29yr Russell. I want to see you wiggle out of this one. And let me remind you that not only did Bill Russell join the Celtics for title number one, but the Tommy Heinsohn also won the NBA Rookie of the Year that year.
