I haven't made a list, but I suspect I'd put him somewhere between 15-20. I rate bigs much more highly than guards because they impact the game more.
So which guards do you place before Kobe? Jordan, Magic, Bird....and who else? The reason I ask is that IMO when it's all said and done, Kobe will be up there with those three guys, and if the list is fair in it's position distribution, then Kobe should be in top ten. And I have yet to see ONE guard who's impacted the game more than Kobe in the last 15 years....well maybe Nash, but that's abit of my Canadian Homerism showing.
that's kind of low. kobe will retire at around the 8-12 range. his jocks in the media will put him near jordan, when he is nowhere near. these last few games should tell you what a stacked team kobe has. he's been stinking it up the past few games, and they still beat 2 of the best teams in the L. players better than him i believe, in no order: MJ, magic, bird, wilt, kareem, hakeem, shaq, karl malone, oscar robertson just to name a few kobe has had a marvelous career.
Bird wasn't a guard. I also think you can't compare him with PGs like Magic, West, Nash, Stockton, Robertson, and Thomas, so really we're just looking at SGs and swingmen. Among those, he's only clearly behind MJ and I'd put him behind Jerry West and LeBron, so #4 there. But I look at it as tiers-- he's not in the top tier of all time players, but rather mixed in with other great swingmen like Drexler, Wade, Gervin, 'Nique, etc. Yeah, he's ahead of those guys because of his longevity and rings, but talent-wise very comparable. There are many bigs that were more impactful than Kobe. Just off the top of my head, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Kareem, Moses, and Russell.
To me, the kobe vs lebron debate is fairly simple. Lebron is more talented and is a better athlete than kobe. Kobe its just the better player. This game is not only about the talent lvl you have, is about knowing how to win, know what it takes and do it, the mental part of the game is huge, and kobe is a winer. Maybe lebron will be there sometime, but right now is not even close. Kobe has led his team to 2 championships, while lebron have led his to none. This is the real diference between good players and all time greats. Kobe is already a top 10-15 player, while lebron is probably entering the top 50 right now. When all is said and done, lebron has a shot to even be a top 5, but he s certainly not now. ps: i stop watching the video when the guy said kobe is not an elite scorer... i was "WTF, this guy is probably blind". Kobe and lebron haters are blinded, both guys are incredible. ps2: i dont even like kobe or lebron, i enjoy a lot more watching post players like duncan, hakeem.
You're kidding, right? When do people (other than the Kobe fanboys) ever talk about Kobe without mentioning that?
the past 3 laker games are perfect examples of the past few years for kobe. the lakers can win with kobe having REALLY subpar offensive games. only until this year that lebron has that luxury (and he still rarely have off games). there is zero doubt that lebron is the better player right now. i don't care if you want to bring up rings or whatever, lebron is the better player right now. you can say kobe has easily the better career, and i do agree with that. but kobe has played 8-9 more years than lebron. we don't know how lebron's career will end. but the past 2 years and now, lebron is the better player. period. if you say otherwise, you probably think derrick rose is the best player this year, which would be laughable also.
Lebron is definitely the better athlete. He's also a better passer. They're comparable as ball-handlers. Kobe is a better mid-range shooter, Lebron is vastly superior at finishing near the rim. At this point, Lebron's defense is also head and shoulders above Kobe's, although Kobe used to be a much better defender in his youth. I'm not sure how it's so clear that Kobe is the better basketball player. Ok, so Kobe is better because he knows what it takes to win. By that you must mean that it takes playing for the league's premier franchise, with the most talented teammates, and for the greatest coach in the history of the game. Lebron is just entering the top 50? He's a two-time MVP, a scoring champion, and an all-league defender. He's already a top 25 player without even winning a single championship.
Bulls won 50+ games without MJ in 1995, were in ECSF and fought to last shot of game 7. Was that a knock of MJ? LeBron quit in playoff, he can't hold Kobe's jockstrap, period.
LeBron's clearly the better player today, but to already label him the superior all-time player is absolutely ludicrous.
Well, yeah, I suppose if LeBron were to have a career ending injury now Kobe will go down as the better player. That said, LeBron has already had seven seasons better than Kobe has ever had. It's just a formality at this point.
jordan never have 3-4 subpar games like this in a row brother. kobe has basically been a nonfactor vs orlando/dallas (2 of the better teams in the L) and the lakers still won those games. oh, kobe makes those guys better i see? by sucking? and it's funny that you forget kobe quit in the playoffs also. at least lebron went to the line. kobe vs the suns just stood around the 3pt line and refused to even shoot. that was a more blatant quit. but i guess he was trying to pass and make his teammaes better vs that suns team too i guess
Kobe was the best player in the league from 2006-2008, but the first two of those seasons he was a selfish chucker that racked up a lot of points and nothing else. He peaked during his MVP season and learned to give up his shots to his teamates. And then age finally caught up to him last two seasons and he passed the torch to Lebron. Maybe I'm just biased, but in terms of skills, I will always rank Kobe higher than Lebron, because personally I prefer finess players. To me, Lebron is a bulldozer with really good passing skills.
The only thing Kobe did better than LeBron during those years was score, and that was because he took more shots. LeBron was a slightly worse scorer, a much better passer, much better rebounder, a much better defender, and much more efficient. It's really no comparison. The only year Kobe was better than LeBron was 2003-04, LeBron's rookie year.
lebron has more than just "good" passing skills. there's a reason scorers that have high usage rates don't average the assists numbers that he does. derrick barely averages 1 more assist and he's a freakin' PG the only skills kobe has better than lebron even in his prime are his mid-range shot and post game, which are huge obviously for the prolongation of kobe's game. b/c of lebron's physical strength and physique, he makes it seems like it's all power. but that's not the case. i mean, you can argue dwayne wade plays more like a bulldozer than lebron does. it was arguable from 04-06. you can go with either. but it was clear from 08 and on: too clear in fact. and lebron is a better scorer since 08 too. so lebron is the better scorer, rebounder, passer, defender, and MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more efficient. i mean, i'm very perplexed when people try to argue kobe is the better player still than lebron. it's baffling. it's like how people argue kobe is close to MJ when MJ the better scorer (a lot more), rebounder, defender (a lot more), and MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more efficient. it's baffling when i read these comparisons. i think when lebron does win a ring, all this talk will stop.
LeBron is not a better passer, he's just a big ballhog doing PG. Remember good PGs get 10 assists a game? Triangle is an equal opportunity offense and no one got many assists out of it. Kobe's career high on assists were 04-05, when he played a lot of P&R. LeBron isn't a better rebounder either, he's just a SF on defensive side and he's in a better position to get rebounds. Kobe averaged 8 rebounds, more than any Celtics in last year's finals. And Kobe's a better player to date, every back-to-back FMVP is the best player in the league, unless a prime MJ came out of retirement. A choker artist like LeBron isn't remotely close to that. LeBron nuthuggers believed how LeBron's gonna averaged triple double now he has help. In reality he's down in almost every category. What's more, Heat's determined to win less game than Cavs of last 2 years. That said it all.
