It wasn't just that he never one a game against SA, PHO and Dallas, it was that he played worse in the playoffs than regular season. His rpg was 6.4 in the playoffs at memphis. I just recall him giving up and having no effect on defense/rebounding...playing with not much energy or fire.
Diaw, Barbosa, Bell, House, James Jones. These are still rotational players today, even Kurt Thomas has a contract. Compare to Smush, Walton, Kwame, Cook, George. It's clear who had a better team.
Obviously playoff basketball is different and those teams planned to stop Pau. But it was an accomplishment just taking Memphis to the playoffs those three years; yes, they may have had some depth but most teams whose 2nd best player is Mike Miller aren't going to make it. That's how valuable a good bigman is. And as of right now, Pau is playing as well as anyone in the league. But that is just 7 games against very poor competition, so it doesn't mean that much. He'll probably be 20/10 and 2nd team by the end of the year.
I agree 100%. Gasol's 0-12 proved he couldn't be the man. But he's one of the best support guys in the NBA.
Clippy, Despite us disagreeing regarding the quality of Gasol's teammates at Memphis, I don't think there was any doubt everyone on this BBS considered Gasol a 2nd tier big man during his 1st seven years in the league. Would you agree with that? I agree he has gotten better with the Lakers, probably will make 2nd team NBA, but best big man/MVP candidate? I'm just not seeing that. How many big men in history have gone from 2nd tier to superstar at age 29? They are usually showing superstar-dom before that age; hence, the "perfect fit" argument that durvasa makes.
I think Gasol and Bosh are interesting to compare. Neither had much success as the lone star on their team. Gasol has had considerable success as a number 2, and Bosh is hoping to replicate that as a #3 (albeit shaky start for him, individually). If they switched places -- Bosh in LA and Gasol in Miami -- which team would benefit more?
Gasol isn't the best player to create his own shots, Yao easily beats him in that. But he's long and mobile, can catch the bullet ball, runs the fastbreak well, finishes hook shots using either hand, shoots mid-range pretty well, smart offensive rebounder, very good passer. He's a perfect 2nd option.
Gasol can face up from the free throw line and take opposing centers off the dribble. I think he has a more well-rounded, versatile offensive repertoire than Yao Ming. Any edge Yao has as a post player over him is purely due to his size. To me, Gasol is the Big Fundamental 2.0. I'm not putting him in Duncan's class, but he's the closest thing to prime Duncan that we have in our league.
Bosh will fit in triangle well. Bosh isn't much a post player but Kobe can live there. On the other hand, Bosh is more mobile and has more range than Gasol, that's an ideal bigman in P&R situation. Gasol is more effective staying close to the hoop, that conflicts with Wade/LeBron's game.
I don't think Gasol has changed that much with the Lakers (aside from this current stretch where he has been playing out of his mind against bad competition). He is just on a good team now and in the media spotlight. I don't know what the mood was on this board back when Gasol was in Memphis, but I've always thought he was one of the best PFs in the league. He's not as good as Duncan, but then Duncan is probably the best PF ever. He's more like (prime) Elton Brand, who was a great player. The problem with classifying players into "tiers" is that so much of it is team dependent. Top flight superstars are almost always just great players who have good teammates. Like I keep mentioning on this board, is there really a lot of difference between Kobe and 'Nique outside of their teammates? This is not even a shot at Kobe as much as it is a testament to how underrated 'Nique was. Similarly, if you surrounded Gasol at a young age with good teammates and coaching (such as the situation Duncan came into with DRob & the Spurs), who's to say he wouldn't be considered a top flight superstar? All I can say is that right now he is the best player on one of the best teams, and that is what an MVP candidate is.
Ok, and Kobe's missed playoffs, 3-4, and 1-4 proved he couldn't be the man. But he's one of the best support guys in the NBA.
0.589 vs. 0.501 fg%, that's the big difference when Gasol changed a team in mid-season. Kobe made him better, simple as that. And by your logic, how was MJ better than Dominique when he had no good teammates, didn't he go 1-9 without Pippen in playoff? Every Batman needs Robin, MJ was lucky to have Pippen. Kobe was lucky to have Gasol. Deal with it.
MJ was better than 'Nique through his numbers (which were better across the board), but yeah, they were a lot closer than people think. Kobe and 'Nique, however, had the same numbers and this is not even factoring Kobe's inevitable decline over the next few seasons. Agreed the every Batman needs his Robin to win. Shaq and Gasol know this more than most!
Because Kobe took a team of NBDL players to playoff. Kwame, Smush, Walton wouldn't be starters in any other playoff team. And Kobe led Lakers to top spot in west before Bynum was injured. Given average support, he's gonna win a round or two in playoff. Given quality support, he's gonna win multiple championships, and that's what NBA's about.
See, your problem as a fan-of-a-player and not fan-of-a-team is you phrase everything as "he's gonna win" instead of "they're going to win". You just don't get it.
'Nique and Kobe's number were close when they're the man in the team? LOL. Too bad you are the only one holding that unique view. And too bad Kobe will continue to win FMVP if they do win it all. You are so desperate to find an excuse to relieve yourself before the 8th game of the season, it's so funny and pathetic.
Yes, their numbers were very close. I don't really care of Kobe wins MVP or FMVP-- I don't hate the guy, I just hate his ignorant fans who try to make him more than he is and have to introduce him into every discussion that isn't even about him because of their insecurities.
I am not aware of Nique averaged 35ppg or anywhere close to that, though he's benefited from the fast-pace 80s' ball for numbers. And I don't even hate ignorant Kobe haters. I like to make fun of them though. Personally I don't know why Kobe fans need to be insecure. Kobe has overachieved for his talent should he retire today, anything he achieves beyond today is just bonus.
Oh, sorry, I assumed you meant that Kobe was "the man" for all of his post-Shaq years. I didn't realize you agreed with me that he was a sidekick with Gasol too. In that case, yes, I suppose from 2005-2007 Kobe did put up better numbers than 'Nique did for his career. What? You are the most insecure Kobe fan I've ever seen. You bring him up in every thread, even those that have nothing to do with him (like this one). That can only be because you feel the need to remind us about his greatness, and the only people who do that are insecure.
