You dont become a great leader by falling for the most basic emotional baits. Now granted this is fiction and we all knew exactly what would happen, he was warned well ahead by Sansa what would happen. Its not so much I minded what went down as much as it mimicked the classic CW script style nonsense. Sansa, the irrational and over emotional character of the series is the one being clear headed while Jon, the battle hardened soldier is being the irrational and over emotional person all while another army/group comes in at the last second and saves the day. This story line schtick has been used way too often and it sucks GoT is going down this path. GRRM would not have written such a crappy plot.
I just have one question for the people that keep saying Jon made a reckless, emotional decision . What does Ramsay do if John turns back ? Pursue right into jons trap ? The same people bashing John for his decision would be doubly pissed if Ramsay engaged in a similar assault , because it's even more out of character. The likely thing Ramsay does is waltzes back into winterfell and there is no battle and no hope for John to take the castle . The entire battle itself was a long shot , John knew this even before rickon got gunned down . Even if johns charge is reckless , it may be the only way of luring Ramsay into and open conflict . Finally , what if Sansa did tell Jon about her Knights . If she did and he knew that turns his move into genius.
When you get your whole army killed the move was stupid. Little finger is basically the king of the north now since snow has no men. While tywin was kind if evil, he was the most effective leader. Wasn't overtly too cruel, but wouldn't hesitate to chop some heads.
Regarding Jon having no men anymore...it actually looks like he has at least 1,000 survivors. If you pause the scene when the Knights of the Vale come crashing into the circle, you get nearly a complete birds-eye view of the survivors within the circle. I'm counting/estimating easily 1,000. I count a row of ten, then ten deep, then start multiplying that space of men. And yes, the longer battle scene shows the body wave of men alive and cheering...so it is not the pile of dead within the circle...although there are some squashed to death, but most are alive. Now of course, that could just be for cinematic effect...to have more men in the scene, and we will be told it's less later. But you can easily get a good estimate of what the scene does show. Yes, I'm a geek for counting that.
Quick question about Tyrion, isn't he a marked man wanted for murdering his father? Cersei hasn't really focused on him, she may have mentioned him once or twice this season as far as I can remember. He's openly serving as an advisor to Dany, wouldn't word eventually get back to Kings Landing regarding his whereabouts? Is he provided round the clock protection by the unsullied?
I wanted to see Ramsay send his hounds after Rickon, then Ghost bursts into the scene in a surprise flanking maneuver (half pincer) and wipes them all out. But then, Ramsay would launch the arrows to kill Rickon... and Ghost would die yet-another wolf's dire, whimpering death in the hail of arrows. But just maybe Ghost charges Ramsay by running along under Jon's horse, and fights valiantly at his side the rest of the battle, and gets to kill Ramsay at the end....by leaping through the hole Wun Wun makes in the door...but just after killing Ramsay when we think it's over, Ghost gets hit by a Costark arrow and dies next to Wun Wun...in yet-another, dire whimpering death with Jon and Sansa dropping to their knees to pet him one last time.. That would definitely get the SO crying next to you and needing some "consoling"...
Glad Ghost didn't get killed ..I have a theory that if a Starks wolf is killed then they will also die at some point ..so Araya and Jon will probably be the last two remaining Stark kids .. Would be awesome for them to reunite in the last episode , much like they were saying goodbye in the first or second episode. Also you'd think being raised by that wildling chick that Rickon would have learned a thing or two .. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cC0keDGobck" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Cersei has been a bit busy The High Sparrow has her complete attention. I don't know how long she was locked up So that info may have come and gone Getting Tyrion won't be an issue i the high sparrow has her executed. That said. Sansa is now Queen of the North Sansa is wanted in the Murder of Joffrey The Lannisters will have to attend that at some point Rocket River
You're right...it did seem like Jon had a large number of men left. Even when the Bolton army was surrounding them, they didn't seem to out number the wildling army by too much.
Random question: [In the show] about how many men do we think are still on the Night's Watch? Last we saw them it looked like there were only about 30-40 of them.
what made me cringe was the fact that Rickon didn't zig zag to dodge the damn arrow. Cmon cuhhhhhhhhhhh
IIRC, didn't Jon send a bunch of them to one of the other outposts along the wall. He beheaded one guy because he refused an order to go.
I actually doubt that Tyrion really wants to cross the narrow sea with Danny and come back to Westeros. Remember at the end of last season he counseled Danny on potentially staying in Mereen? If he crosses back over with her, there is ultimately a reckoning with Cersei, but I think its more complicated than that. We know that Tyrion is very fond of Cersei's children Tommen and Marsella. We know that Marsella is dead, but its not a given that Tyrion does at this point. Tyrion knows that crossing the sea and helping Danny retake the throne means potentially killing his Nephew Tommen, and would have meant bad things to his kin like Marsella, Kevan, or whoever is alive from the Lannister house.... Tyrion also would have to realize that eventually Jaime and him would potentially reunite, and he obviously loves his brother who at this point might kill him. So my suspect is that Tyrion might actually stay and rule Mereen when Danny leaves probably in the next episode. It would essentially be Tyrion's exit for the show, but it would make a ton of sense for a happy Tyrion ending to his arc in the story where he finishes his days as the King of Essos to some extent. However GOT and ASOIAF aren't happy ending stories, and he narratively its more dramatic to have Tyrion come back to Westeros, face his demons, and likely die by or kill his kin in dramatic fashion.
Good points dobro1229, Regarding Jamie "might want to kill him." I know you wrote that in a list of who would want to kill him, so I'm sure somewhat for comedic effect. Just to be certain though, Jamie is the reason Tyrion escaped and is in Meereen. I think they have a pretty strong bond.
I think Tyrion has talked about wanting to return to Casterly Rock on the show hasn't he? I don't know what will happen in the books, but I seriously doubt Tyrion will be left in Mereen to close his story out before the end of the show. If anything they will leave Missandei behind to rule. Tyrio is too big a star to be left off the final season.
He had no idea he'd kill his own father. Jamie also told Bronn last season that if he sees him again he'll "split him in two... then I'll give him your regards". Jamie is also still displaying a heavy sense of duty to his family, and even still staying true to Cersei. If Tyrion is coming to Westeros he's doing so to essentially destroy the Lannister house. It would be shocking if Tyrion wasn't conflicted about coming back to Westeros and helping Danny take the Iron Throne. My guess is he tries to counsel Danny to treat with the Lannisters to let them peacefully retreat back to Casterly Rock, but we know that wont happen. I think either way Tyrion's story either comes full circle with a reuniting with Jamie or he stays in Mereen and lives out his days there ruling in Danny's stead. If Tyrion came to Westeros, and helped destroy the Lannisters with no conflict with him it would be very terrible writing on the shows part. Tyrion loves many members of his family even if he hated his father and knows his sister wants him dead. It would be just bad writing to sweep that fact under the rug and write Tyrion as simply Danny's drunk right hand man and nothing else.
Its GOT/ASOIAF... of course he comes back to a more dramatic close. If this was reality we were talking about he'd probably be the one to stay and rule in Mereen, but him coming back is the more dramatic ending resulting in conflict and likely death for all. If we are looking for the most dramatic ending to Tyrion's story it would ultimately be Jaime killing both Cersei (to stop her from going Mad Queen and burning the city to the ground), and killing Tyrion when he sacks the city with Dany. The irony in this conflicted character doing the right thing by throwing out the notion of his honor. The Kingslayer is now the Kinslayer.
It will be interesting to see how Jamie reacts. He said he would kill Tyrion if he ever saw him again (after Tyrion killed their father). I don't think Jamie could follow through with that threat though unless it was to save or avenge Cersei. I can't imagine that we won't see the 3 Lannister children together once again. I suspect Tommen will be dead before Dany ever gets there. And of course part of the prophecy seems to indicate that Tyrion will kill Cersei.
