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[FX] “Shogun” Mini-Series

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by GRENDEL, Nov 2, 2023.

  1. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    That took me a while to get over, too. But it probably would've made casting harder to find actors fluent in Japanese, English and Portuguese. I also imagine FX would have been reluctant to fund a show 100% in Japanese and Portuguese.
     
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  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Even in the first half of episode 1 he’s supposed to be speaking Dutch since his crew are all Dutch. In the book it says when he arrives in Japan he can already speak English, Dutch, Portuguese, Spanish and Latin. The only time he actually speaks in English in the book is when he’s swearing.

    Also most of his crew can speak Portuguese and Spanish because of Holland had been a vassal state of Spain and Portuguese success in trading and sailing meant most sailors at the time learned at least some of they language.
     
  3. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Man, I wish I was that good at languages!
     
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  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Many current Europeans especially Dutch can speak multiple languages. Portugese, Spanish, Italian and Latin aren't that difficult as they are closely related. So if you learn one you learn a lot of the grammar for the others.
     
  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Yeah, I know. I attended an international school. An Italian girl who started at the same time as me already spoke Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, German, and was working on her French and she was 12. She was very soon better at French than me too. We had a teacher from Lebanon who spoke a ton of languages, all with a weird accent. The joke was that she knew every language, but was a native speaker in none of them. But I invested a ton of effort in learning French, and have no knack for it. I'm amazed it comes so easily for some people.
     
  6. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    just finished the first 2 episodes, when does this get good? the secks scene was lame.

    @A_3PO told me to watch 2 at a time and chew on some food in between. so i'll continue tomorrow.
     
  7. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    You should try old fermented soy beans.....

     
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  8. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    mmm Natto
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    My first time in Tokyo, these were very difficult for me.
     
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  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I've had it a few times and it is a hard to eat.
     
  11. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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  12. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    XXX GF.
     
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  13. Xerobull

    Xerobull You son of a b!tch! I'm in!

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    Careful with the X-Girlfriends. Hot/Crazy effect in effect.


    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    just finished. the ending was a let down. they kinda sped thru it. everybody wanted to see the battle but brehs be saving some monies.

    anjin and mariko's stories didn't do it for me. wanted to see moar ishiso and yagushige story. teh secks was lame, barely showed anything.

    other than that, this was a solid 8.5 or 9.

    question: did toranaga plan for his bestie to seppuku and mariko to get killed in osaka? i can understand him sacrificing mariko, but his loyal bestie seppukuing himself, shirly there are other ways.

    also how did ishido become the leader of the regents? if taiko gave them all equal powers upon his death, how come breh had more influence? and why did he hate toranaga?
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Some answers to your question:

    The book ends before the battle of Sekighara so no big climatic battle is true to the book. With a second season of Shogun my guess is that will have the battle.

    Lame secks, it still is basic cable so they were limited in what they could show. In the book there's more sex including some kinky descriptions.

    Toranaga didn't expect Hiromatsu to seppuku (in the book it's another one of Toranaga's generals) but did expect his Samurai to react very negatively to his decision to surrender. He was willing to sacrifice Hiromatsu and others to sell his deception.

    Toranaga expected Mariko to die and knew he was sending her on a one way mission to Osaka. This wasn't just because he was cold blooded but both he and Mariko saw it as a way to redeem herself and her family. To strike a blow against their enemies.

    Ishido was the Daimyo who controlled the region around Osaka so he already had a lot of influence. The main reason though he gained control was because the other Regents feared Toranaga and saw Ishido as a counterbalance. Ishido then took their families hostage in Osaka castle to keep their loyalty. The historical figure Ishido is based off of wasn't necessarily a bad guy and according to many sources acted out of loyalty to the Taiko. The historical figure Toranaga is based off of was more brutal than the character.
     
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  16. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    thanks breh, but daaam so basically they wanted us to root for the baddie the whole time. i knew there's a reason why i liked ishido and yagushige.

    i thought this whole series was from the pov of anjin sama. thems ancient japans customs must be cray to live in. there are strict rules to everything and you can't even have a normal relaxed dinner with your fam. i think they still do some of those things today in japan like lining up and bowing when your ceo walks by or something, at least from the movies.

    but the japans has the coolest angry voice ever.
     
  17. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Whether Toranaga / Tokugawa is a baddy depends on your POV. He was a brilliant ruthless military leader but he did bring peace to Japan after two centuries of almost constant fighting.
     
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  18. JW86

    JW86 Member

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    So there's actual historical base to this? That's cool. I thought it was great, 9/10 but for me there were 2 things that kept it from perfection (SPOILERS AHEAD):

    1. Not connecting to some parts of the "culture", like killing the baby of Fuji after her husband did something wrong as well as the many seppuku. I know people have been romanticizing Japanese history, esp relating to martial arts and samurai. There's lots to love about the meticulous attention to detail, respect, honor, living by a code but there's so much disrespect towards women and just power hungry men pretending to live by standards and codes, yet backstabbing is right around the corner and lots of secrecy.

    If anyone knows more about seppuku (hara kiri) how historically accurate is that part?

    2. Too many key deaths, mainly through suicide (Mariko was basically one too). I am usually all for key characters dying unexpectedly, but to kill off 3 big ones in last 2-3 episodes was a bit too much for me. Kind of ironic since if GoT had actually allowed some key characters to die during the Long Night would've made me feel much better about the final season, but here it left a bit of a sour taste.

    I was happy when I read last week the series is renewed, but after seeing. the final episode, I am not sure what's more to tell. It feels finished. Sometimes a limited series should just stay that, but if they bring this type of quality casting, writing and acting to it then I welcome even 9 more seasons.
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    To answer some of your questions. I don't think we have to spoiler them anymore.
    Suppuku was a real thing and during this time period a feudal lord could order their vassal to kill themselves. Also it was a very patriarchal society so women were considered property of their husbands and feudal masters.

    Mariko is based on a real historical figure who did die in service of Tokugawa.
    https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a60440484/mariko-akechi-tama-true-story-shogun/
     
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