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From 5 to 13: Redefining the Positions in Basketball (and the current rockets makeup)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Aydge, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. Aydge

    Aydge Member

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    A Stanford guy claims that there are 13, not 5, positions in basketball. With all the hysteria about our 93 undersized PFs, I thought it would be interesting to look at our current roster accepting this "13 positions" premise.

    I'll start with his definitions for the 13 positions. Then look at how our team fills out those positions. And then discuss what it might mean.


    Taken from http://www.sloansportsconference.com/?p=5431


    For the Rockets:

    Offensive Ball-Handler - Goran Dragic
    Defensive Ball-Handler - Kyle Lowry, Chandler Parsons, Courtney Lee
    Combo Ball-Handler - Royce White*
    Shooting Ball-Handler - Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb*
    Role-Playing Ball Handler - Marcus Morris
    3-Point Rebounder - Jon Leuer* (Chase Budinger)
    Scoring Rebounder - Luis Scola, Donatas Motiejunas*
    Paint Protector - Marcus Camby (Samuel Dalembert)
    Role Player - Patrick Patterson, Terrence Jones*
    Scoring Paint Protector - N/A
    NBA 1st-Team - N/A
    NBA 2nd-Team - N/A
    One-of-a-Kind - N/A


    To me this address more of the roles players have. The other issue is who they will be matched up against on defense.

    1 - Courtney Lee, Kyle Lowry, Goran Dragic
    2 - Courney Lee, Chandler Parsons, Goran Dragic, Jeremy Lamb, Kevin Martin
    3 (quick) - Chandler Parsons, Courney Lee, Jeremy Lamb, Kevin Martin
    3 (big) - Chandler Parsons, Royce White, Terrence Jones, Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris
    4 - Chandler Parsons, Royce White, Terrence Jones, Patrick Patterson, Jon Leuer, Donatas Motiejunas, Luis Scola, Marcus Morris
    5 - Marcus Camby


    Disregarding the (very real) possibility that any of our new players were drafted to be traded, it appears that they have made Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, and Patrick Patterson expendable. Assuming Goran and Courtney Lee are resigned Kyle Lowry will be expendable. And assuming Jon Leuer continues to develop his 3 point shot, Chase Budinger's role has been replaced as well.

    Replacing Samuel Dalembert with another Paint Protector will be a priority. But as we all know, a "star" is what we lack.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. LCII

    LCII Contributing Member

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    Another academic trying to quantify sports. Lebron James is not one of a kind but Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose are? LOL...

    I'd give his system some weight if he simply put Derrick Rose in the Tony Parker category and Dwight Howard in the KLove/Griffin cat.
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I am sorry, this is adding complexity unnecessarily.

    There are 5 positions, and many many roles for sure. But you don't need to do all of this stuff.

    5 positions based on where the players set-up - with the pg being the guy who initiates the offense. That's it. A center is not charged with rebounding as much as playing close to the basket. What they do stems from 3 factors:

    -Where they are positioned in the offense.
    -What are the needs of the team
    -What are their talents

    I could come up with 100 different positions if I look at every combo.
     
  4. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    Fantastic post...

    Only drones see basketball in 12345, or positions.

    Basketball is too beautiful to be so limited.
     
  5. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    This sounds like some feature in a future NBA game.

    "Now when we break down and rate players, we each give them roles. Here are the roles currently planned for NBA 2k17..."
     
  6. LCII

    LCII Contributing Member

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    Of course basketball is more than 5 positions. But theres no need to categorize them all when you could simply say 'he's a 3 with good shooting and rebounding' or 'he's a 3 that's more of a point-forward'. That's whats great about basketball, every player is unique even if they share the same position with someone else.
     
  7. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
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    Saying he is a "3 with good shooting and rebounding" IS categorizing.

    That type of thinking is for ESPN drones.

    Real coaches need to get creative. At the end of the day, You are what you can guard... Lebron James is a viable point guard, and a viable power forward. It is worthless to label him as either or in between.
     
  8. csj

    csj Member

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    Garbage in, garbage out.
     
  9. Aydge

    Aydge Member

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    Dwight Howard and Derrick Rose were examples, not the whole category. I'm sure Lebron is the same "One-of-a-Kind" category.

    The point wasn't to put people in categories based on his personal judgements, but to let players' production define the categories.


    Exactly.

    And it's poor categorizing that leads people to thinking things like:

    "OMG we have 93 PFs!! FAIL!"

    We didn't simply add 4 PF's, we added:

    one "Combo Ball-Handler" (White)
    one "Shooting Ball-Handler" (Lamb)
    one "3-Point Rebounder" (Leuer)
    one "Scoring Rebounder" (Donuts)
    one "Role Player" (Jones)

    2 of which can guard 4s and smaller 5s (Leuer & Donuts)
    2 others that can guard 4s and bigger 3s (White & Jones)
    1 that can guard 2s and smaller 3s (Lamb)

    That's an important distinction because you could have 4 of those players on the court at one time and match up with positions (2-5) without any redundancy on their "roles."
     
  10. JLOBABYDADDY

    JLOBABYDADDY Member

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    Wasn't this posted last week or the week before?
     
  11. JLOBABYDADDY

    JLOBABYDADDY Member

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  12. LCII

    LCII Contributing Member

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    i dunno, i just think its easier if you simply describe what they are instead of categorizing them all. it's sillier to have 13 or 100 categories than 5...in the end, ur still 'stereotyping' them...if you just describe their game, it's more accurate AND detailed.
     
  13. Showtyme11

    Showtyme11 Member

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    I just want us to fill the "one of a kind role"
     
  14. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    It was, and it remains a dumb attempt by the guy to "rewrite" things. He's got "roles" confused with positions.

    NBA "expanded" positions:

    PG (trad.)
    Combo Guard
    Point Forward
    SG (trad.)
    Swingman
    SF (trad.)
    Tweener
    PF (trad.)
    F/C
    C (trad.)

    and you could make the argument for "swing forward" (Marion, Odom, Rashard Lewis, etc)
     
  15. oelman44

    oelman44 Member

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    I'm not sure I buy into this. There are 5 positions in basketballs and the rests are roles. There's 13 categories that every single player in the NBA could fall into. Every player has a unique skill set and unique strengths and weaknesses. While the 13 position statistical analysis was interesting it seems unnecessary.
     
  16. oelman44

    oelman44 Member

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    Correction: There isn't just 13 categories that every single player in the NBA could fall into.
     
  17. Aydge

    Aydge Member

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    Whether you want to argue that they're "positions" or "roles" that's just semantics to me.

    (If you think there's no point in understanding the differences in roles that's another issue all together and you should probably skip this thread as you have nothing to add to it.)

    The point of this thread was to highlight the DIFFERENCES of our new players. To see what gaps in our roster need to be filled. And to see who is being made more dispensible by acquiring someone new to take their place.

    Bud leaving created a gap for a scoring rebounder.. that's been filled by Jon Leuer.
    Sammy D leaving created a gap for a paint protector.. that's hopefully being filled by Dwight Howard.

    It's well known that we're trying to trade KMart, Scola and Lowry, and I think it's even more telling that we're bringing in people to fill the same roles they occupy.

    (I also think all of this is the back up plan to remaining competitive if we can't get that superstar via trade.. Like it or not, the goal before Morey is to be competitive while building towards contending for a championship)
     

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