It’s weird that Fvv barely gets any discussion after signing with the Rockets besides a couple of idiots comparing him to kpj. For all the players on the team that people make tongue in cheek “franchise player” threads about, Fvv will actually be the Rockets best player for the duration of his contract, so the thread title is actually fitting and not in jest. Let’s see how he compares to other noteable point guards around the league. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/ Fred Vanvleet +3.8 off +1.2 def +5.0 overall Damian Lillard +9.3 off -1.5 def +7.8 overall Steph Curry +7.5 off -1.2 def +6.3 overall Kyrie Irving +5.6 off +0.4 def +6.0 overall Tyrese Haliburton +6.9 off -1.0 def +5.9 overall Jrue Holiday +3.6 off +2.1 def +5.7 overall Ja Morant +4.5 off +1.0 def +5.5 overall Shai Gilgeous-Alexander +5.0 off + 0.2 def +5.2 overall Jalen Brunson +5.7 off -1.0 def +4.8 overall James Harden +4.8 off +0.0 def +4.8 overall Darius Garland +3.6 off +0.7 def +4.2 overall Trae Young +4.9 off -1.0 def +3.9 overall Jamal Murray +3.6 off -0.2 def +3.4 overall Deaaron Fox +4.4 off -1.9 def +2.5 overall Kevin Porter Jr +1.8 off -0.5 def +1.3 overall https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-database/ Fred Vanvleet +2.98 off +0.26 def +3.25 overall Ja Morant +3.73 off +0.09 def +3.81 overall Shai Gilgeous-Alexander +3.58 off +0.21 def +3.79 overall Damian Lillard +5.99 off -2.26 def +3.73 overall James Harden +3.45 off +0.14 def +3.59 overall Steph Curry +4.06 off -0.47 def +3.59 overall Jrue Holiday +1.88 off +1.58 def +3.47 overall Tyrese Haliburton +3.49 off -0.26 def +3.22 overall Darius Garland +2.91 off +0.21 def +3.12 overall Kyrie Irving +3.17 off -0.65 def +2.52 overall Trae Young +3.99 off -1.9 def +2.09 overall Deaaron Fox +2.96 off -0.88 def +2.08 overall Kevin Porter Jr +0.02 off -0.71 def -0.69 overall Fvv is on the same level of overall contribution to wins as many other perennial allstar pgs, but he is lower on the offensive side so he gets underrated by casual fans since that is all they see. He reminds me of two other point guards of the same caliber and archetype, Mike Conley and Jrue Holiday. Fred and Conley both have 1 allstar appearance, Jrue has 2. From fan voting they may seem like one hit wonders, but in fact nba front offices view them otherwise- all 3 were signed to max contracts/extensions. Truth is, it is hard to find plus defenders at point guard due to their size, so the ones who are can afford to be lesser offensive players and still have a similar total impact to winning as other more obvious “perennial allstars”. Former front office executive John Hollinger seems to agree, and values Fred Vanvleet at $47m a year: https://theathletic.com/4590137/2023/06/08/nba-top-free-agents-kyrie-irving-james-harden/?amp=1 3. Fred VanVleet, PG, 29, Toronto (player option): $46,873,792 I sometimes wonder why there is such intense focus on Irving and the Lakers when VanVleet is nearly as good and vastly more reliable. This BORD$ valuation is slightly bloated by Nick Nurse’s insistence on playing his starters 47.9 minutes per game, resulting in VanVleet’s minutes estimate being unrealistically high for what he’s likely to face next season — whether under a new coach in Toronto or as a free agent. The other twist here is that VanVleet only has seven years of experience, which means his max is “just” $40.2 million — a relative bargain, at least in the first year of a multi-year deal. A good deal structure for him would be three years with a fourth-year player option, which lets him cash in on a 10-year veteran max for 35 percent of the cap if he’s still playing at a high level in 2026. VanVleet certainly will opt out of his final year at $22.8 million and has no incentive to sign an extension yet because even the revised extension rules in the new CBA won’t net him nearly enough. ——————— The Rockets are going to blow past expectations this year due to a myriad of factors: vastly superior coaching, improvements from young players, the end of tanking. But rest assured the biggest reason will be because of Fred Vanvleet, franchise player, who will generate >10 additional wins by himself:
He's plus both sides: two way. Partly why we paid him the big bucks. (including the Silas tax). The franchise label may trigger folks, but going into the season, can say he could be the best player on the floor (presently).
Waiting for @DaDakota well reasoned response about why KPJ should have remained the starter for the Rockets. And for that matter why they should not have drafted Amen and traded the pick for a vet before the Rockets were ready to contend with most of the talent 20-21 years old. But at the same time getting the vet FVV was a bad move. I need answers bruh!
The franchise tag is just because that’s what the kids want to call all of their favorite players nowadays. Are we “building around” Fvv? No. But what I mean is he will certainly be the Rockets best player in the foreseeable future, and if one other player on the team reaches his level the Rockets will be a playoff team, and if multiple other players reach his level eventually the Rockets will become contenders. His level is a “perennial allstar”, may not be the perception but in terms of the production.
i dont care what anyone says FVV was ass last year. its still great to have a veteran presence and he will definitely help, but if he's the best player the rockets are lottery bound once again. its time for some players to make a leap.
He will probably be our best player this season unless somebody has a huge breakout, so I guess this makes more sense than any of the other dudes right now Only problem is he's already 29, and while I do think he is underrated, he's more like a top 30 player in the NBA than a top 10 guy that you build a championship squad around. But sure, in the year of our lord 2023, he can be our Franchise Player.
Well he is likely our best player next year. But if by 2025 he is still our franchise best player... well then we are probably screwed.
LMFAO - no he is not. And again, you can't compare a 29 year old's stats with a better coach, better players and better system to a 22 year old who was told to just go 1 v 5 and beat your man. FVV clearly would have better stats, as anyone would in that situation. Happy to have him, he is gonna help particularly on D and ball protection but he is not a franchise player, never has been never will be. Franchise player....LOL - good one. DD
If we have 3 more guys at the same level as fvv in 2025 then we should be a contender ala those championship Detroit teams.
I should say there hasn’t been much excitement. Most of the discussion has been about how overpaid he is, or how Kevin Porter is the same player (lol). Look at that list of point guards that have comparable impact, besides Jrue Holiday, had we signed any of the other ones think about what kind of reaction it would have been here.
Well-researched post. But still a big nope. If FVV is our franchise player, we've got a great shot at beating out the Pistons for next year's worst team title.
Sengun was a +1.43 overall in LEBRON and +1.9 overall in RAPTOR last year. Both of these numbers are the best on the Rockets and both are up significantly from the year before. He certainly has the best chance to reach Fvv’s level (+5) from what we have seen so far but it is still a significant jump from where Sengun was last year and I’m not going to anoint him until he shows it.
Franchise player means top 6-8 guy in the league, the rockets don't have one. FVV is certainly the best player on the team but franchise player he is not.
If we're going to use the mid-2000s Pistons then we technically need 4 more guys to reach that level, and hope that FVV doesn't age badly. And I personally put Ben Wallace on another tier from the rest of that group myself. He actually was a legit franchise player not just for the jokes on the message board of a 22-win team.
I kind of like FVV. But if he is the Rockets best player for the duration of his contract (3 years) then I'll be extremely disappointed. That will mean that none NONE of the young players we picked in the past three drafts turns into a star. It means we will be in the mediocre treadmill for a long time.
We will count ourselves lucky to be in that mediocrity mill, it is more likely they stay below mediocrity.
