As I expected. No answer from Bigtexxx. He starts a pointless thread and then challenges me on a silly premise. With my point proven, you don't even acknowledge it with a simple disagreement or concession. Thanks texxx, you are a joy to talk with...as usual. Next time you launch one of your "oh yea, well prove it" comments, I'll simply remind you of this little exchange as to why I won't bother providing facts. [yawn]
Let me point out why I feel the "disdain" of the French is irrational, IMO. I agree it is a very real thing...just irrational. That creates "disdain?" How does French domestic issues affect American conservatives. That's a horrible reason for disdain. I've been several times and never had a negative vacation or even felt the French were rude. I find the French return to you what you give to them. If you are polite and make an effort to speak the language, then they are polite back. If you talk to them like a moron by talking slower and louder, they will treat you like a moron back. (I've seen it ALOT) No more so than Americans are arrogant towards EVERYBODY...as evidenced by the blatent dismissal on the UN. This is just a stereotype that people love to play-up. It's WAYYY over-blown. But I'd certainly say the French don't like American policy but then few countries in the world do and 49% of Americans themselves as of 2004 don't like our policy.
Damn, and I wanted to live in France for a year to brush up on my French I thought I would have it easy since I have an EU passport, but if it's difficult to find a job, then I might look elsewhere.
Business over there seems to use various loopholes to allow them more flexibility with their labor. Until an employee works for 3 months (I believe), they are not considered full labor, and are easily let go. After 3 months it becomes much more difficult. I saw a real world example when I was in Paris and was seeing a girl that was a business student and worked in a botique. She was let go after two months and three weeks and said it is a very common practice. Of course that left her with more time to hang out w/ me. But having strict hiring/firing laws increases the cost of labor and though it may have some people retain their jobs, the overall unemployment rates will fall. i.e. They will have 6 employees instead of 7 if its much more expensive to hire/fire them.
I never said the anti-French thing is rational. But it's fun. Why do leftists and conservatives both disdain China for their domestic issues? How does China's domestic issues affect liberals or conservatives? No - I do not talk like a moron. English ain't my first langugage- maybe that makes me a moron. I ain't a white American. I'm a Chinese YOF. Chinese people generally respect Americans and view the US as the best nation in the world. I just don't know why actual Americans don't feel the same way - and I don't see why Americans have to bash their own country when some anti-French crap hits the fan.
Very good points. Let me take a crack. 1. Disdain for China's policies: Well, American's don't like human rights violations...particularly the lefties. Personally, I'm not up to speed on the topic but I understand the Olympic Commitee also considered NOT awarding 2008 for human rights issues. French socialist policies don't involve human rights considerations, generally. 2. Talking like a moron. When I say that, I refer to the stereotypical American that makes no effort to speak French. Instead, they speak English slower and louder...as if suddenly everybody will understand. The French are famous for pretending to not understand a lick of English whenever Americans fall into this pattern. A little pompus yes...but so are American's for making no effort and assuming everybody speaks English. So it goes both ways. Are you a moron because you mispronounce an English word. No. And anybody who blindly pokes fun because of a mispronounciation are probably ignorant and never tried to learn a foreign language themselves thusly perpetuating foreign stereotypes of Americans. 3. Why American's bash America? Can't say. First let me say that few people bash America (right or left). We bash some of our citizens or our policies. But American is the greatest country on earth, IMO. But I'm allowed to bash America because I am American. Just like I can "bash" my wife but I better not catch YOU saying anything about her. But Personally, I have little tolerance for people who (too often openly) make no attempt to understand and/or respect things beyond their current lifestyle. Perhaps I am not phrasing this exactly right but I'm sure you understand my intent. Some people have a narrow exposure...such as people raised in remote villiages. But this is America where information is readily available. Millions of people here have recently been persecuted (historically speaking) for being "not white" or doing things that don't conform to "our way" for no other reason than that. So when conservatives bash the French, from my perspective you mind as well substitute ANYBODY, including myself, and the same irrational "disdain" too often applies to anybody or anything. If somebody doesn't like French based on personal experience...fine. But if somebody doesn't like the French just because that's what they've heard their whole life or refused to go into things with an open mind...well that just perpetuates that typical mantality that so many on the left feel is prevelant. This country was supposedly built on freedom and that is engrained into our heads from birth. So when people have attitudes that moves us closer to a mentality of intolerence, that's where I have problems. Given our current political climate, this mentality (which others may define differently than me) is not only strong but many people openly celebrate their closed-mindedness. That is why Americans, IMO, are so politically divided more than anytime in recently history. [/End soap box] You posed interesting questions so I'm simply responding.
I think this exodus is about the same size as the exodus to Canada (of Kerry supporters) that followed W's 2nd term victory.
You know what would be the best: Have a modest little cottage in Provance, get up with the sun and go out and do a little work in the orchard or vinyard come in for wine and cheese and get a nap, meet all your friends down at the tavern for drinks and laughs come home to a late supper with the winch and get up tomorrow to do the same thing. That is living the good life.
Ain't gonna happen. Some of your friends you have drink with want a piece of your orchard or vineyard by virture of their excessive hard work, and eventually take all your orchard and even your little cottage. So you end up living in a rented little cottage and have to work on your friends' orchard to earn your rent, while your friends work their arses off on getting another vineyard and cottage. On Sundays in church, you and your friends worship the same god. You pray you would be healthy enough to stay on the same routine so that you can keep on renting your cottage, or even better, you can buy that little treasure on the loan from you friends. At the same your friends pray they can acquire more and more orchards, vineyards, and cottages through the grace of god. The priest, now witnessing everyone mesmerizing in their pursuit of eternal tranquilities, let out a cry: "Praise lord for our good lives!" Everyone, including you and your friends, follows: "Praise lord!"
You are making very good points. But somehow I felt that your point 3 is slightly contridicting with point 1. I absolutely agree with your point 3 about objection to intolerance and closed-mindedness. However, you simply generalized the reason for "Disdaining for China's policies" is due to human rights violation. I don't think the issue is that simple. From my observation, lots of Americans don't even understand lots of issues involving China, simply objected everything. I guess their beef isn't with human rights, but rather the name of "communist". Some americans are well-informed, and base their opinion on the facts of matters, not whether it's china related. Of course, there are still people with racist minds, that we can't do anything about it. In my opinion, there is also well a little bit more tolerance and open-mind could be appreciated. Speaking of travelling in France, I've been to many countries. The trip to France wasn't bad, but certainly not good. In fact, that's the only country that I had trouble with not speaking the language. Across the whole Europe, including Eastern Europe, and France's neighbours, people don't mind me speaking English or German. With a map and backpack, other people just considered me a tourist, and voluntarily spoke with me in English. You can't say those people don't take pride in their own language. I believe we Chinese do. But noone in China would give a foreigner a second look, if you can't speak Chinese. According to our culture, you are supposed to be very polite to your guests. People will try to help foreign tourists with broken english. If you try to speak a few chinese words, it's pleasant surprise for sure, and they will be glad. But that cannot be mandetory. Maybe just because China is a developing country?
The only place i have had trouble with the language in my travels was London! I either didn't understand a word they said, or was holding back giggles thinking i was in the midst of a Monty Python sketch. The French were so amazed by my butchering of their language, that they did their best to speak to me in english.
They would be very happy if you can speak some broken French, but my problem was that I only spoke a very few words, and half of them weren't even good words But I knew less words in Russian or Polish, and didn't get much problem there, even before the broken down of the old Soviet Union.
Good point. The stereotypical right-winger will hate anything Chinese for the same reason they hate anything that is French or "Gangsta" or whatever. You bring up a good point about communism as that is something that is just brainwashed in our conciousness as been associated with bad things. The lefties I know are able to seperate that. However many of my friends are immigrants and first generation and/or are younger and the cold war wasn't AS formative growing up as folks, say, >5 years older than me. I find that is a universal truth. If you TRY to speak the language, people are much more apt to be helpful. I guess from my perspective, I WAS trying to speak French so I didn't experience that patented French attitude. But the mostly when I saw the French were openly rude (I saw it in Italy too in touristy spots) was when people made no attempt to speak but arrogently spoke louder and slower and got frustrated why nobody understands them. In those cases, they usually got rudeness in return.
In fairness to the french-bashers....the snooty frenchman stereotype existed long before Bush, and is held by more people than Americans. I just didn't experience it.
Yup, because America will be better off if everybody looks and acts just like you. I know, why don't you find a way to forcibly remove (or exterminate) the liberals.
You happen to know Randi Rhodes of Air America Radio? She never seems to hesitate to accuse Commie China this, Commie China that.
I know don't her. I've listened to her show a couple times prior to the election and felt she was trying too hard to compete with Rush and Co. I also don't know anybody that listens to her. Plus any news or information source that openly affiliates itself with an agenda must be fact checked...which is too much work for me. That's my opinion. That's why I don't listen to Air America. I'd rather get data and form my own opinions. But I will say this, you can hate a country's policies and not hate the people or country itself. That's about where I am with America right now. Perhaps that is her position on China.
Same as Lou Dobbs. The reason behind lots of his argument was simple "China, as a communist country". Remembering that Unicol bidding, it was so hot in the media, and even on this board. Now, the Chinese dropped the bid, nobody cares any more, nobody comes out and celebrates that American National Security prevails against free market.
