Former Muslim says that ISIS represents true Islam

Already done. Not my fault if you ignore the facts.

I'm getting the feeling that you don't know what a "question" is. How about you tell us anonymously a little bit about your background.

 

I read everything you posted, showed where they didn't back your claims, where they were misleading, and even where they were behind a pay-wall with very little real information. You're welcome to refute those arguments and show how they prove Erdogan is a religious extremist that wants sharia law.

What difference does it make if I'm black, white, Arab, Israeli, Chinese or Cambodian? My background and demographic is inconsequential to the ideas presented. Engage the ideas based on their merit and also show me facts that I "share ideology with Erdogan."

 

You didn't show anything, other than desperation to distort the facts.

Do you have something to hide?

 

Nobody is making excuses for Islam. I condemn anybody who refuses to use their own logic and use a literally interpretation of a text written thousands of years ago for their version of what is moral. My contention can be summarized by "pot calling the kettle black".

I agree. But there is nothing in the Christian bible that instructs the followers not do do so. The fact that there are more Christians relative to Muslims that do not follow the scripture literally has nothing to do with Jesus's teachings.

"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill," (Matt. 5:17).

Go back in time when Christians were making the same mistakes and you will see that your statements above will also apply.

 

If using your own moral compass don't work, then Christians should be in the same boat as they were 100's of years ago. You keep denouncing a culture's ability to be able to correct themselves even though you yourself admit that Christians changed their views about numerous things yet for Muslims - it is an impossibility.

Ah, the old I knew one person who had this experience so everybody else must have had the same. I agree that Islam can be taught a number of different ways just like any religion. But why are they singled out?

 

You don't seem to be the sharpest tool in the shed.

 

Prove it. Stand behind your words. Show the world which facts were distorted.

The only thing you have shown is Erdogan is indeed a Muslim. That seems like enough for you.

Nope. Is an idea less valid because a black man says it? How about an A-rab? Maybe I'm both. Maybe I'm neither. If your arguments depend on my race, then you expose your own prejudice.

 

You can repeat your nonsense as much as you want, it doesn't make it true. I even posted a video of Erdogan in which he clearly states what his plans are. You claim that it was "mistranslated" without backing up your statement with anything. You ignored the questions whether you actually speak any Turkish - otherwise, how could you claim the translation was incorrect?

See above. You claimed that Erdogan's statements were translated incorrectly. It is entirely relevant to assessing how credible you are on this whether you are Turkish/speak Turkish or not, yet you dodge an answer to the question.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/should-turkeys-erdogan-worry-west-72021

Are you seriously disputing that Erdogan wants Sharia law?

 

Wanted, maybe. "Wants" has no evidence. Once again, read the full article.

From your own article:

About the video, the summary you quoted claims:

Not true - nowhere in the video is Sharia mentioned, nor the "manipulation" of democracy.

This is true, he characterized democracy as a tool to be used to deliver the will of the people.

Half. He says an Islamic society will rise - presumably because the will of the large Muslim population will be reflected through democracy, not because he desires sharia.

Half. I can't speak to whether they were all secular or what they were attested for - but people have been arrested.

May or may not be true, I haven't checked.


Furthermore, the word "ilm" has been mistranslated to "Muslim knowledge" in the captions, when it's real translation is plain "knowledge." The mistranslation surreptitiously tries to instill a religious agenda where it's unnecessary to do so.

 

So you speak Arabic, but not Turkish, but pretended to know that his words have been falsely translated, yes?

Everyone can see your ridiculous backtracking. You are clutching at straws.

 

How about "love your enemy"?

You've heard it said, "do not murder." But I tell you if you hold hate in your heart, you've already murdered.

His words plus the example of his life as a servant riding in on a donkey in his most triumphant moment...while ultimately praying for the very men who put him to a horrific death....yeah I have a difficult time seeing a "fundamentalist" view of that leading to violence. The words and story itself don't lead to that. You have to twist it or literally lie to someone who can't read it on their own to get to that point.

 

If you listen to enough Christian pastors and preachers, MadMax...
...and nobody else (which is key)....

...you can really see where these dichotomous ideas come from in the same religion.

I’ll be the first person to admit that I can’t draw the parallel between a Jesus who poses with an AK-47 and the one who subjected himself to ridicule and a tortuous death to prove an otherworldly spiritual truth.

But then, to do that, I’d also have to admit that I’m a plantation-minded liberal tool of a race-baiting Negro…with a text from the free phone I got from my half-black Negro savior president who’s going to take over the world…as soon as he gets smart enough to do it. But that might be because he’s too busy channeling homo-demons to black men in order for the homos to take over and keep him in power…

It’s fascinating to witness how the mind tracks when it’s trying to validate or justify a perspective against “fact”, because our emotions are just as valid as our intellect. Emotions are perhaps once-removed from instinct, which is one of the rationales many of us use to justify not only our ability to think of an especially creative way to hurt somebody, but to wrap that thought up in a violent impulse and decide that it’s as simple as what happens with the other animals (survival), who we otherwise have nothing in common with unless it suits our narrative.

Jesus of Nazareth, by the way, probably had to die because he was introducing a brand of wisdom that would have brought down the power structure of the Jewish priesthood which had held sway over Jewish life and life perspective for centuries, had it been widely grasped and accepted among his Jewish countrymen. Too many people with too much to lose.

Same-old, same-old. Follow the money.

Christian pastors and preachers preach pretty consistently that the greatest power in the then-known world was Rome, and “Christianity” was able to conquer Rome. The key word there is “conquer”. Nobody can correlate “conquer” and “humility” in a physical sense. You don’t win fights by not hitting. You don’t get shot if you don’t do anything to NOT get shot…etc. and so on. Especially when “…might makes right…” is the most direct way to accept that fact that “Christianity” was subsequently used as a backdrop for military conquests for many centuries, by many different countries.

It’s funny how preachers will preach that it is not flesh and blood, but spiritual wickedness we contend with…so we’d better take up arms and be ready to blast the first thing we can get down our sights…and say it’s God’s will. A more convenient mish-mashing of Old/New Testament theology, I think, could only be accomplished in America and called a good thing. They don’t call America a “melting pot” for nothing.

I don’t know, MadMax. I’m thinking…maybe it’s just me, you know?

I mean…let’s say “God” has a sense of humor…which is why he wrapped me up in black skin and had more than a few dozen of my synapses fire at the same time…and put me in a place where a good chunk of people wouldn’t believe I was anything more than a problem they couldn’t find a big enough bullet to solve… just for grins and stuff….

…you know, I’d get it. I got that same kind of warped sense of funny myself. I can see the humor in showing somebody the opposite of what they’re used to seeing or expecting to see, and getting a chuckle at how they unravel at the revelation.

Except that I never got told that God was the joking sort. He doesn’t make mistakes, and he’s in control of everything. So there’s a reason why He does what He does, and I just don’t understand it. That would be passable too (I’d give God the benefit of the doubt there, seeing as He is omnipotent and all, and I can’t remember which shoe I tied first this morning)…

…but that Bible thing is a problem…because if Jesus said what he said in there…and a Christian does exactly the opposite of that…and somehow retroactively rewrites the narrative…but I can read all that for myself and even not being Jewish, I can see how a lot of that isn’t kosher….

…well, yeah….then maybe I guess I CAN see the need to “…take America back…”

Who knows what the hell would happen if we practiced what we preached?

 

LOL. You use the argument of "Dicto simpliciter" then when I called you up on it, you proceeded with "Ad hominem". Have I been disprespectful to you? Keep the hate going as we know that always leads to great things.

 

yawwn ... why don't you go ahead and demonstrate these two, I'm willing to bet you can't.

here's what backtracking means (and how it's used), if you need a study guide:

-------

While you're off figuring that out, lets review (I made a note of the links you supplied):

Accusation: Muslims want Sharia Law and refuse to take action against IS

False:

• Arab nations have joined the coalition against IS with the west (link)
• German government officials have recognized the efforts of Muslim community against IS (link)
• Muslim scholars in the Middle East have distanced themselves from IS ideologies (link)

Accusation: Turkey did not join the coalition because Erdogan is a Sunni extremist that wants to help IS build a Sharia state

False:

• Brookings Institute: [Turkey's] evolution reflects how democratic traditions and institutions can both interact with and moderate political Islam (link)
• Economist: lack [of] hard evidence to show that the AKP is working to reverse secular rule (ATW link)
• Al Arabiya News: Erdogan gets "service to Islam" award "for rapport between civilization and a passionate advocate of constructive dialogue, openness, and principles of international understanding and cooperation." (ATW link)
• Newsweek: Turkey’s foreign-policy agenda is driven more by the country’s business interests than by Islamic identity (ATW link)

"Strongest" evidence that Erdogan and Turkey harbor extremist views, and help IS because they are Sunni:

• YouTube video from 1996 - fully stocked with a misleading summary and misinterpreted subtitles. Erdogan's biggest sin in the video is calling for a democratic Islamic state. (ATW link)
• Erdogan recites a polarizing islamic poem in 1998 and gets thrown in jail - hardly an example of secular freedom of speech (ATW link)
• Erdogan pisses off Israel to win Turkish votes (ATW link)
• Turkish Airlines won't serve alcohol - except, it does (ATW link to pay-wall)
• Erdogan's son sold land to a businessman with alleged ties to al-Qaeda - "death by association" is a weak standard that's been tried against Bush, Bush II, Obama, Reagan, Rumsfeld, and a whole host of other politicians (ATW link)

 

Yet, even with those famous words, Christians still made atrocious acts. There is no reason to think that you won't find parallel teachings in the Quran and they too are committing crimes. What does tell us? People pick and choose what they want from their holy scripture to justify their actions and it is usually their current leaders that influence their beliefs.

 

Agreed. Religion is a tool that when wielded by an angel can lead to happiness and prosperity. When wielded by a sociopath (devil), can lead to misery and destruction.

The wielder will interpret the words at their discretion to achieve their desired results.

 

Pot calling the kettle black?

Please compare the number of Christian organizations are attempting to take over land in the name of Christ and killing literally millions in the name of Christ.

You wont find many in recent history.

Why? Because most of where Christianity is popular, you have secularism.

 

I see that you have now created parameters to absolve Christianity of their past behaviors. I am sure you want to erase the past and let people forget what was done by narrowing the criteria.

It's up to you if you want to compare numbers, to me, one or few incidents is enough to convince that even during the modern times, Christianity can still be hijacked to commit heinous crimes. Unless Bosnia is not recent enough for you (1995). How about the killing of homosexuals in Africa currently still going on which are attributed to the propaganda of American evangelists?

Are those crimes absolved because they don't say "in the name of Jesus" ?

Are you going to deny that there are currently radical Christians who wants get rid of secularism? They have not been successful but the fact that there is still this movement confirms that even modern Christians can fall for this propaganda. Why? Because it can be justified in the bible.

That was a response to your "First, there are a lot less hard core practicing Christians than hundreds of years ago". Please show me in the bible where it states, don't follow the bible literally.

I haven't read the new testament? LOL. You and I can quote a lot of lines in the bible that violence is the last resort just as easily as we can quote that says the opposite. You can justify any act (good and bad) if you use any of the holy scriptures.

It is not an excuse. How stupid would a Clippers fan look by berating the whole rockets organization (past and present) for not getting to the second round because they have had more recent success?

 

Yeah, I'm not arguing that it doesn't get perverted or twisted. That wasn't my point at all.