Florida Night Club Shooting - at least 20 dead - impact on US elections?

I'm not blaming him for not dying, I'm blaming him for not doing his job. It was his job to protect all of those unarmed civilians and he ran away. The shooter wasn't wearing any body armor, so it's not like there was a small target he had to hit in order to stop him. Any shot that hit anywhere near center mass stops the shooting outside. Any shot to the head stops the shooting outside. Any shot to one of the gunman's arms likely greatly slows down the gunman saving lives. Any shot to one of the gunman's legs likely stops him outside.

He basically had to hit the gunman anywhere and he failed so over 100 people were hurt and 49 died.

 

You were in the military. Have you ever delivered a lethal shot at a moving target at night with a pistol while they were returning fire?

Also to add when you're alone with no one giving covering fire.

 

No I have not, but I have some idea of how difficult it would be. I'm not saying that it would be easy to do, I'm saying it's his job to do it. That said, I also know how hard it would be for someone without really good training to hit a specific target while on the move with a rifle. Firing into a crowd would be easy, you're likely to hit someone no matter what, hitting a specific person? Different story unless you really slowed down to aim.

I just feel like the officer should have good enough training to where he could hit the shooter somewhere, anywhere on his body. If he can't, I don't want him being an officer or armed guard. I don't think it's asking too much to have those who are tasked with protecting unarmed civilians to be able to take down one guy that has no body armor on. If we have to invest in better training of our cops for that then let's do it, if we have to pay our cops more to get a better quality of cop out there protecting people, let's do it.

This guy was supposed to have been a 15 year vet cop.....how the hell do you get to be a cop for that long if you can't hit someone anywhere on a torso when you shoot? How do you get to be a cop that long if you run away abandoning 300+ unarmed people to a terrorist simply because you are being fired at? There's plenty of former grunts out there working at Denny's or whatever that would have done a much better job than this guy.

 

And yes you are pretty much blaming him for not dying in the line of duty. He put his life on the line when he engaged Mateen. Him continuing to engage the shooter when he was obviously disadvantaged just leads to him dead. He's no good then as he cant call in for help or provide info about the situation.

It sounds like your expecting something out of Lethal Weapon where a determined cop can just deliver a kill shot at the bad guy even though out gunned.

You weren't there not I.

 

I'm not even expecting a kill shot, I'm expecting the cop to be able to hit him somewhere. Hell at least slow the guy down before running away and abandoning 300+ unarmed civilians to the whims of a terrorist.

Being "out-gunned" means dick, one round if fired anywhere near accurately ends this or greatly slows the gunman down saving dozens of lives if not more.

 

There was a study. Google for it. Officers hit their target 18% of the time in a gun fight. Now, I believe that was multiple offices to one target. This case is different. Out gunned and by someone that was apparently highly trained and accurate.

So, perhaps better training for the officers is nice. And some help with not being out-gunned would be great to. Every officers should always be carrying around military grade weapons is a start.

 

Then, um, why do civilians need military-grade weaponry again? :grin:

They should be fine with muskets and six-shooters.

 

Sam Harris may have liberal positions but listening to him compare Islam to Nazism is just ridiculous. Most Muslims are peaceful, and there are many many many moderate Muslims. How can he say that they are basically the same as Nazis?

As for Trump being a liberal - that's simply laughable. He may again have some liberal positions in certain areas, but he certainly has many many conservative positions as well.

 

LOL there you go "military grade weaponry", that buzz phrase just shouts to everyone that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

What is "military grade weaponry"?

Is this "military grade"?

Spoiler

What about this?

Spoiler

What about this?

Spoiler

How about this one?

Spoiler

 

Have clicked none of those spoilers. We didn't need proof that you couldn't take a joke, but nicely done in any event. LOL.

 

Ah, my mistake, I should have known better than to take you seriously.

 

You broke your own rule. Never argue with a sociopath. You may have to add never joke with a sociopath.

BTW, instead of talking about military grade which is a nebulous term, you could just post this.


AR-15 Inventor’s Family: This Was Meant to Be a Military Weapon

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ar-15-inventor-family-meant-145455435.html

In the wake of the Orlando shooting that left 49 victims dead, the family of the inventor of the AR-15 rifle says that the gun was not intended for civilian use but for military purposes.

“Our father, Eugene Stoner, designed the AR-15 and subsequent M-16 as a military weapon to give our soldiers an advantage over the AK-47,” the Stoner family told NBC News. “He died long before any mass shootings occurred. But, we do think he would have been horrified and sickened as anyone, if not more by these events.”

The AR-15 has become the centerpiece of a national debate over assault weapons and gun control, after attackers have used them and similar guns in mass shootings. Proponents of stricter gun control say that assault weapons like the AR-15 should be banned, arguing they are not intended for civilian use. Gun rights activists say that banning the gun would infringe on Americans’ Second Amendment rights. The National Rifle Association has taken to calling the AR-15 “America’s rifle.”

The killer in Orlando used a Sig Sauer MCX, a semiautomatic assault-style rifle that is similar in appearance and capabilities to the better-known AR-15.

Eugene Stoner, an ex-marine and the rifle’s inventor, never used his AR-15 for sport, kept it for personal defense, or even owned one. His family said he made millions by using his design, but only for military sales.

“After many conversations with him, we feel his intent was that he designed it as a military rifle,” Stoner’s family explained, saying that their father wanted to make the “most efficient and superior rifle possible for the military.”

 

I think the shooter here was definitely a sociopath.

 

Human Rights Campaign and other LGBT groups to take on Gun Controls.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...ally-lead-to-meaningful-gun-reform-heres-why/

 

I'm not going to second guess the security guard, who was clearly out-gunned in a dark, chaotic, and loud environment, but I will second guess the response of local law enforcement, which took 3 hours to take out this guy, while members of the public were bleeding out from their wounds, with the shooter continuing to shoot people up until the moment he was, finally, shot by police. In Paris, it took about 2 hours and 20 minutes minutes at the concert venue, filled with 1500 concert goers, for the French to get in and take out 3 heavily armed terrorists, who were wearing suicide vests and reportedly had hand grenades. Yes, they were in the French capitol and had elite response teams available, yet I'm sure some criticism was directed towards their response as well. Here's some directed at Orlando law enforcement.

In my opinion, the Orlando police, and the sheriff's department, who were also on the scene, took far too long to act decisively. I'm sure many will disagree with me, but that's how I see it. Local law enforcement across the country need to reexamine their procedures for dealing with any situation remotely comparable to Orlando. My guess it that they thought they were well prepared for any eventuality. Clearly, they weren't prepared to act quickly and decisively in this case, in my opinion.

 

Why do right wing extremists jerk Bibi every chance they get? This dude lives off of terrorizing his own people.

 

True, but he bridges a credibility gap by knowing a Colt from a Sig Sauer.

 

[Premium Post]
ATW -- thank you for posting that video of Bibi's response. If the United States had a President with half of his leadership abilities, we would be far better off. Instead we have an appeaser who is allowing ISIS to run wild with no repercussions. This administration spends more time fighting about letting men use women's restrooms and about fighting the fantasy climate change crisis of the month instead of actually going after our enemies.

If anyone believes Obama's motivation for gun control is pure, I would ask them to tell me why Obama is eager to provide guns to Mexico, SE Asia, and the Middle East in vast quantities, yet keep them out of the hands of our own citizens -- the citizens who have a Constitutional right to keep and bear them. That right there is proof that Obama's intentions are to put in place the building blocks to have total control over the populace. The holy grail of control would include higher taxes (check), control over healthcare (check), control over energy (trying to do this with climate change, but blocked), and gun control.