One thing kobe has though he defends better though. Kobe loves to shut down players defensively. True McGrady if he WANTS to he is a good defender but if u look at box scores his player usually gets a good amount of points because he is not defending them that well. Kobe can score much more efficiently, can shoot better, and is not scared to penetrate. But overall Kobe has always been a step better than McGrady.
Proof. Very very few times in history do players average significantly more than LeBron is right now. He is near the ceiling. Yao, on the other hand is NOT near his ceiling. Yao attracted TMac. Just like Shaq attracted help in LA and Miami. Players know having a dominant big makes life easier for all. So it isn't a coicidence that Yao has help and LeBron doesn't. ...and it's those very question marks why I wouldn't trade Yao right now. Before Yao's toe surgery, I would have made the trade in a heart beat. But after seeing his improvement I wouldn't pull the trigger on that trade. James younger? TMac was young too and injuries have slowed him down. Injuries to Yao as a 7'6" center means he doesn't need to rely on athleticism as much. Put it this way, if we graphed both Yao's and James rate of improvement this season, I expect that Yao's graph will be steeper. Has there aver been a player like Yao? He had a dominant big man that requires triple teams. ...hence my point. Nope. I'm debating if I would trade Yao for LeBron. My answer is no ...not right now. A dominant big man simply is more valuable than a dominant small. Yao isn't that dominant big man ...yet... but the potential is still there. If Yao reaches his potential and LeBron reaches his, I take Yao. If Yao never reaches it, then I take LeBron. But since Yao's in on the cusp of a breakout season, I can't make that trade. You can swap out LeBron for probably 4 or 5 other guys in the league (Wade, Kobe, etc) without significant drop-off. Assuming Yao gets better than now ...who in the league do you swap out with Yao?
If it's the 20 points 9 rebounds 2 blocks 2 assists Yao from before the toe surgery, or the Yao overall from last year of 22 points 10 rebounds 2 blocks 2 assists, then probably Lebron would be #1 most untouchable then Yao #2, then D Wade or Kobe next. HOWEVER I cannot even believe anyone in this thread even considered LeBron for the 27 points 12 rebounds 2 blocks 2 assists Yao (after the toe surgery - minus the Utah game where he broke his foot) That Yao that had no help on defense, and still shut down and achored the team and kep opposing FG down extremely low. That Yao that drew constant triple teams, off the ball doubles, sandwich defenses, 4 players in the lan, etc and STILL hit 27 points per game without any other player helpinh him, hitting open shots, etc. That Yao that was scoring at will against hard double teams from two 6-10 plus defenders..... That Yao that was being hammered endlessly by the other team, fouled numerous times by numerous players every time he touched the ball and STILL scoring at will. That Yao that was shooting 56% from the field against that, getting 1.5 points per shot attempt (level of total domination), was hitting 88% of his free throws (something every other great big in history could only dream of).......... Everyone in this entire thread that thinks LeBron is worth the same or more than THAT Yao is living in an alternate reality from fact based life. I really don't care what fans from "other teams" or "general fans" or "experts" or "media analysts" or "sports writers" or whatever say differently about that, or how the game has "completely changed" etc. If Yao starts next year off where he left off, not only is he the most untouchable from money and marketing standpoint, he is by far most untouchable from basketball standpoint. Don't kid yourselves people, aif that was a glipmse of the future Yao (who should get even better than that) then you are looking at one of the top 4 bigs of all time.
RD, once again you take hyperbole to the nth degree. In every thread, you seem to be the one "living in an alternate reality from fact based life". Your very much biased opinion is duly noted. The point of having the discussion is from a standpoint of objectivity. If you don't care what people from other perspectives think, fine. Some of us occassionally take a venture outside of the Rockets box.
Based on watching the Cleveland-Detroit semifinal series, if Cleveland had Yao in place of Ilgauskas they would have beaten Detroit. Ilgauskas was almost a non-factor averaging 10.9/6.4 in that series and Lebron had to carry the team by himself. Now Lebron-Yao vs Wade-Shaq in the East Finals would have been interesting. Lebron could match or surpass Wade and Yao would have had more consistent output than Shaq although Miami had better roleplayers. Basically Wade had a lot more support from Shaq and the Miami roleplayers than Lebron did with his scrubs vs Detroit. So yeah it would be mindboggling to imagine Lebron and Yao as teammates. T-Mac in his prime would be comparable but I think his best might be behind him. Between his injuries and his reluctance to attack the basket T-Mac is going downhill. It's just wishful thinking though because a trade like that won't happen, especially now that Lebron has signed his extension. Here's hoping that T-Mac stays healthy and performs at least close to his abilities. Maybe the addition of Mike James, Shane Battier and Steve Novak plus improved production from Head can give the Rockets an additional boost.
MJ did'nt have a dominant big man but he had Scottie Pippen who was probably a top 10 player during their championship years, maybe even top 5 in his best couple years. Pippen made a bunch of nba all defensive teams and was a very good 2nd option on offense in his prime. Pippen also often guarded the best opposing perimeter player allowing Jordan to save some energy for offense. Ilgauskas can't be considered a dominant big man, more like a solid to good center who managed to get an all-star appearance because of weaker competition at the center position these days. None of Lebron's teammates are legitimate all-star caliber players so if he was able to beat Detroit and go all the way that would have been too incredible. Lebron won't win until one of his teammates performs at an all-star level.
The article was a good read and I mostly agree with simmons rankings. Here comes the BUT...to say that a higher number player should not be traded straight up for a lower number player is arguable. For instance, as a Rocket fan I wouldn't even blink if I hear that Ray Allen(26) was traded for T-Mac(13) straight up. Of course, that is just my opinion and it is arguable as well.
Zydrunas is an All-Star the same way Jamal Magloire is. They are both average players who got picked because of their positions. The "All-star" averaged 10 points and 6 rebounds in the playoffs while shooting 45%. Juwan Howard would've been better. Eeeeeesh, to think some people used to compare him to Yao Ming. LeBron deserves better than him. I'll give a pass to Larry Hughes right now because he was injured last year, but he'll have to step up big time to earn his contract.
They'd pretty much have to shut down the league if Yao and Lebron ever teamed up. The rockets would be wise to keep their capspace free for 2011 (that's what the spurs did a few years ago by not taking any longterm contracts before Tim Duncan reupped). Bron, Wade, Melo and Bosh can opt out that summer. And we don't currently have any committed salaries for that year. I could see Tracy stepping away that year and letting a young gun take over next to Yao. And I'm only half joking.
Can he shut down Tmac? We will never know cuz he wont guard him all game and when he does end up guarding him on a switch or something ....Tmac schools him
Kobe can't shut down Tracy any more than Tracy can shut down Kobe. But on a consistent basis, game after game, Kobe defends other players better than Tracy. Kobe brings it hard on both sides of the ball and he clearly prides himself on complete domination of his opponent.
Kobe hasnt shut down anyone sans michael redd. the last time both were healthy together look who played better defensively Here you go. First, Kobe's stats. http://82games.com/04LAL6C.HTM Look at the opponent counterpart production - the PER number. 15 is average. Kobe's SG opponents are slightly above average at 15.3. And here's TMac's stats http://82games.com/04HOU11C.HTM 13.2 at SG, 13.4 at SF. The table at the top shows how much he plays each position. Kobe has never been a step ahead of Tmac. Tmacs best year turned out more efficient in the top 3 than Kobe has ever been top 5 at best. Let me see Kobe shut down players the calibur of an All star Glen Robinson, Dirk, etc... all while keeping his scoring average at 30+ppg in the playoffs. Until then go rethink this r****ded post you just made
Are u kidding me? So you are going to tell me that Tracy is a better defender than Kobe...Actually you are going to because i can tell by your moniker. But McGrady doesnt play as hard defensively he only does half the time whereas kobe does it all the time. And plus nobody "shuts down" people anymore. They slow u down. Like when ron artest said he would shut down kobe. He held him him to 22 points. That was 13 off his average. 22 points is still good but it isnt his normal numbers. Thats what u call shutting down.
Kobe shot 45% and 35 from downtown where as Tracy shot 40% and 30 from 3. Year before kobe shot 43 and 34 Tracy shot 42 and 33 Year before that one kobe shot 44 and 33 Tracy shot 42 and 34 Kobe is clearly more efficient i dont need no confusing 82games.com to figure that out.
Kobe doesn't play defense like he used to. Don't let his all-defensive team fool you, all he does is gamble for steals nowadays. He calls it playing "free safety".
Don't let his reputation fool you. Kobe isn't that great a defender. He has his moments (see: Kobe on Parker) but he's nothing to write home about. I vividly remember the Blazers attacking him in the post with Bonzi Wells during one of the playoff runs and Cuttino Mobley not having much trouble scoring against him when he was with us. Very few guys on the perimeter can really make much of a difference these days due to the new rules. The days of Derek Harper's handcheck and Pippen on Mark Jackson (anyone remember that? one of the most amazing things I've seen in basketball that really isn't that amazing...). As long as you don't have a slug like Wesley out there, it's all pretty much the same sans the Bowens' and Artests. As far as McGrady, Kobe doesn't even compare to him when the former is motivated. His dominations of "Big Dog" and Dirk while scoring 30ppg and single handedly carrying his offense were epic. He is truly one of the great playoff performers of his generation though he just hasn't been privileged to have the supporting cast he needs. I have no doubt that if given the help, McGrady would warrant the raves and adulations that Wade drew in this year's Finals.
Besides those first stats of the INJURY RIDDLED tmac year, the other stat years appear close to a dead heat to me. There's no 'clearly' in that. How about the year before that and that? 2003 tmac= .457 3pt-.386 kobe= .451 3pt. .383 2002 tmac= .451 3pt-.364 kobe= .469 3pt. .250 lets point out Kobe's down shooting years as well now. and just for fun 2001 tmac= .457 3pt-.355 kobe= .464 3pt. .305 another one of those... didnt need any stinking 82games.com to figure THAT out 'Always' a step better just isnt the case.... Kobe has an assertive more aggressive demeanor and takes the ball to the rack more. Gets to the line, we'll give him that...More durable too. Using the dreaded 82games and player efficiency Tmac scores better almost every year as an overall player still. You would probably still rather have Kobe, especially after the past couple years. But results show that Kobe is no way clearly steps better always over Tmac. I live close to L.A in Faker territory and even some people here who watch and play bball on the courts would give the healthy Tmac a nod over Kobe. They shoud both be higher on the list and Kobe maybe a step head of Tmac cuz of the obvious injury concerns...
