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ESPN insider makes up a trade: Abdur-Rahim for Rice and E. Griffin

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Matador, Aug 25, 2003.

  1. Matador

    Matador Member

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    You thought only bored BBS members made up trades in the offseason to help pass the time? Well you were wrong. Chad Ford from ESPN writes an article about "fixing" the Hawks that involves a trade with the Rockets.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/story?id=1602314

    Ford's Fixer Uppers: Hawking the Hawks
    By Chad Ford
    NBA Insider
    Send an Email to Chad Ford Monday, August 25
    Updated: August 25
    8:45 AM ET


    Are you a Western Conference team looking to keep up with the Joneses? Has the Lakers' addition of Karl Malone and Gary Payton got you down? Tired of seeing Mark Cuban steal away players just because he's crazy enough to overpay for them?



    Players like Theo Ratliff might be more valuable to other teams than the rebuilding Hawks.
    Still waiting for your team to make that one move that puts you over the top and into contention?

    Never fear. The Hawks are here.

    After the Mavs strip-mined the Warriors of much of their talent last week, several other Western Conference teams looking for a big offseason boost (all of whom were trying to cut deals with Golden State) began searching for another down-on-its-luck franchise willing to give up talented veterans for cap space and/or future prospects.

    By Friday, the vultures began circling over Philips Arena, hoping new Hawks GM Billy Knight would do the sensible thing and hand over his veterans, jump starting the rebuilding process next summer under new owner David McDavid.

    It appears they are right on target.

    The team actually tried to hold a fire sale in February, near the trade deadline, but couldn't find takers for players like Glenn Robinson, Theo Ratliff, Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Nazr Mohammed. Ever since the Hawks shipped Robinson to the Sixers for a guy who was ready to retire, Terrell Brandon, the writing has been on the wall in Atlanta.

    Teams like the Rockets, Blazers, Grizzlies and Sonics have been working the phones hard all summer to try to keep up with the NBA's elite, but so far all four teams have struck out. In every case, what those teams need are veterans who can thrive in the paint.

    The Hawks just happen to have three -- Abdur-Rahim, Ratliff and Mohammed. With only a minuscule chance of actually competing for a playoff spot this year, the Hawks would be better off trading away their high-priced veterans for cap room in 2004 and several young prospects to begin building around.

    Can they make a deal before the season starts? Insider has some ideas on how the Hawks can help themselves in the long run and several Western Conference teams in the short run.

    Step One

    Trade Shareef Abdur-Rahim to the Rockets for Glen Rice and Eddie Griffin: Giving up on Abdur-Rahim will be the toughest pill for the Hawks to swallow. While he isn't a superstar, he puts up a solid numbers every night and is a solid citizen off the court. The problem is, his contract doesn't jibe with the type of player he really is -- a complementary guy who's at his best when someone else is carrying the big load.

    Enter the Rockets. With Steve Francis and Yao Ming already in place, the Rockets are looking for the third wheel that pushes them into the playoffs. New head coach Jeff Van Gundy knows that owner Les Alexander has lost his patience with this team, and right now the Rockets' playoff hopes seem to swing on the development of Eddie Griffin. While Griffin has star potential down the road, the Rockets may not be willing to wait, especially if they can get their hands on a "young veteran" (he's just 26) like Abdur-Rahim. Put him on the floor with Francis, Yao, Cuttino Mobley and Maurice Taylor, and the Rockets are guaranteed of postseason action for many years to come.

    Those moves would give the Rockets this opening-day roster:

    Point guard: Steve Francis, Moochie Norris

    Shooting guard: Cuttino Mobley, Eric Piatkowski

    Small forward: Maurice Taylor, Adrian Griffin, Bostjan Nachbar

    Power forward: Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Malick Badiane

    Center: Yao Ming, Kelvin Cato

    The trade gives the Hawks a promising, versatile young forward in Griffin and roughly $10 million in cap relief next summer when Rice's contract comes off the books.


    Step Two

    Ship Ratliff, Mohammed and Chris Crawford to the Grizzlies for Stromile Swift, Wesley Person and Brevin Knight:This one will be an easier sell in Atlanta. While Ratliff and Mohammed both are skilled, neither player seems to fit into the Hawks' long term plans. Ratliff is 30 and has a history of injuries. Mohammed is young enough but hasn't been able to win the confidence of the coaching staff in Atlanta. Last year he played just 35 games because of a stress fracture. But even in the 35 games he did play, Mohammed averaged a mere 12.7 minutes.

    Ratliff and Mohammed's size are huge commodities in Memphis, however. Jerry West has been working the phones all summer trying to find a real center to patrol the middle. He got close on several occasions, only to watch deals for Michael Olowokandi and Erick Dampier crumble at the last minute. Neither Ratliff or Mohammed have the upside of the Kandi-man or Damp (that's a depressing thought) but together, they greatly improve the Grizzlies problems in the middle.

    Ratliff led the the league in blocks per game last season (3.2 bpg) and is an above average rebounder. Mohammed is a good offensive rebounder and gives the Grizzlies something they long for, muscle in the paint. The big question from the Grizzlies end? Would they really give up Swift? West has been insisting all summer that the team likes Swift and isn't shopping him. Will the allure of two big men be enough to pry him out of their hands?

    Those moves would give the Grizzlies this opening-day roster:

    Point guard: Jason Williams, Earl Watson, Troy Bell

    Shooting guard: James Posey, Michael Dickerson, Dahntay Jones

    Small forward: Mike Miller, Shane Battier, Chris Crawford, Ryan Humphrey

    Power forward: Pau Gasol, Lorenzen Wright, Theron Smith

    Center: Theo Ratliff, Nazr Mohammed, Cezary Trybanski

    For the Hawks, the swap gives them an athletic big man who can play both power forward and center. Swift was very solid after the All-Star break last season, averaging 13.7 ppg and 8.2 rpg in the month of March. Person and Knight are included as salary cap dumps. Both of them come off the books next summer, clearing another $12.7 million in cap room.

    Step Three

    Re-sign Jason Terry: Now that the Hawks know they'll have plenty of room next summer, they should feel much more comfortable re-signing Terry to a long-term deal. Terry really started to come around at the point last season, ranking seventh in the league in assists at 7.2 apg game. While he'll always be a bit of a tweener, the addition of good ball handlers, like first round pick Boris Diaw, will give the Hawks some flexibility to play Terry at the two and use Diaw to run the team as a point forward.

    What is Terry worth? Considering he can't seem to secure an offer sheet from anyone else, the Hawks are in a good bargaining position. Why not offer him the same deal that Philly offered Kenny Thomas -- seven years, $50 million? That would give Terry a starting salary of $5.5 million and keep the Hawks in a good cap situation next summer.

    Step Four
    Sign free agents Stephen Jackson and Donnell Harvey: The key here is getting Jackson to agree to a three-year deal with a team option for year three. To do it, the team would probably have to offer him something close to their full mid-level exception -- like a three-year, $13.5 million dollar deal. It's a good deal for both parties. Jackson can't get that type of money anywhere else. The Hawks need help at shooting guard, and it would allow them to audition Jackson for two seasons. If they like him, they can always pick up the option. If they don't, he comes off the books after the 2004 season, along with Alan Henderson, freeing up even more cap room.

    Harvey can't find a home anywhere. He was once ranked as the top high school prospect in the Class of 1999. What happened? Harvey averaged 7.9 ppg and 5.3 rpg for the Nuggets last season in just 20.9 mpg. He's still one of the better rebounders in the league per minute, but his lack of size and any semblance of an offensive game hurts him. The Hawks can afford to give him a one-year deal and see what he does.

    Those moves would give the Hawks this opening-day roster:

    Point guard: Jason Terry, Dan Dickau, Brevin Knight

    Shooting guard: Stephen Jackson, Wesley Person, Travis Hansen

    Small forward: Glen Rice, Boris Diaw

    Power forward: Eddie Griffin, Donnell Harvey

    Center: Stromile Swift, Alan Henderson

    This is a very versatile lineup. Terry, Jackson, Diaw, Griffin and Swift can all play multiple positions, giving coach Terry Stotts lots of flexibility. You could even argue the Hawks would be better off with this lineup than the one they currently plan on fielding. It certainly would be more exciting.

    Step Five
    Wait for your cap room next summer: By making all of those moves, the Hawks would put themselves in a great position for next summer.

    First, the team will be in contention for the overall No. 1 pick in the draft. With so many young big men headlining the top prospects in 2004 (like Emeka Okafor, Dwight Howard, Peja Samardziski and Pavel Podkolzine) the Hawks should be able to walk away with a nice player to help them in the middle.

    Second, assuming the Hawks draft and pay a top-four pick, and assuming they made the moves we just talked about, the team's payroll will come in at around $28 million for 2004-05. Assuming the cap stays at $43.8 million, Atlanta would have roughly $16 million to play with next summer. That should be enough to re-sign Swift (who will be a restricted free agent) and another top-tier free agent.

    In 2005, the team should also be able to clear another $12 million in cap room (at least) when Henderson and Jackson both come off the books. They'll have to use some of that money to re-sign Griffin (who will be a restricted free agent in 2005), but there still should be enough cash to give the Hawks room to bring in one solid player in free agency.

    Put all of that together and the Hawks, Rockets and Grizzlies all have something to look forward to next year. The Rockets should be a playoff lock, the Grizzlies should be good enough to battle the Blazers, Sonics and Clippers for the eighth playoff seed, and the Hawks will have a nice young core to begin building around when they hit the free agent market in 2004.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A couple of notes. Can Taylor even play the 3? Ford has Taylor starting at the 3 and Badiane as the only backup 4. I would think that A. Griffin at the 3 with Taylor backing up Shareef would make more sense.

    Its nice to see that Ford has E Griffin and Rice starting for the "new" Hawks. I'm sure some people thought that the Rockets were the only team in the NBA where those two would be starters. ;)

    Our "new" line-up has only 11 players which would give us the chance to possibly sign a few free agents at the league minimum: a third point guard and another big body down low. Perhaps Vladimir Stepania or Jelani McCoy and Rafer Alston or Tierre Brown? Hopefully we'd resign Hawkins.

    Personally I'd be for the trade if not only to add some excitement coming into next season with all the other Western Conference big moves. Abdur-Rahim worries me in that he hasn't won anywhere on the pro level but I wonder how much that had to do with his teams. You cannot deny his ability for 18 points and 8 boards everynight; something that E Griffin and Taylor are not even close to being able to do at this point.
     
    #1 Matador, Aug 25, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2003
  2. dbigfeet

    dbigfeet Member

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    Now this is a trade I like a lot.
     
  3. OmegaSupreme

    OmegaSupreme Contributing Member

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    i've always liked this trade, but chad ford loses all credibility by putting maurice at small forward.
     
  4. Matador

    Matador Member

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    That's what I was kinda thinking too. But it would be easy to start Adrian Griffin at the 3 and have Mo back up SAR. I don't know why Ford didn't suggest that.
     
  5. RIET

    RIET Contributing Member

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    I would do that trade in a second.

    He's not a superstar but he doesn't have to be on this team. He would be one of the best 3rd options in the league.

    Plus after his contract expires (only 2 more years) we could sign him to a more reasonable offer.
     
  6. leroy

    leroy Contributing Member

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    I would do that in a heartbeat as well. Although, Taylor at the 3 is silly. He would be a perfect 1st option for the 2nd team at the 4. No way is hw a starting 3. Adrian Griffin fits in perfectly as we would have 4 very good scorers on the floor already.
     
  7. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    And Cat and MoT would be the best 4th and 5th option in the league for sure.
     
  8. Matador

    Matador Member

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    In my opinion Karl Malone would be the best 3rd option and Gary Payton the best 4th option but that's beside the point; the Rockets after this trade could get scoring from alot of different options.
     
  9. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Payton 3rd, Malone 4th. And that only if a certain someone doesn't go to jail...
     
  10. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    btw: isn't this confirmation that the Rockets have been "working the phones hard all summer" but just don't have the assets it takes to pull a trade. Remember, the Rockets never talk, right? There is no reason to not believe Travis Best got an offer from us, and his confused mother talked him out of it.

    sigh

    don't be so hard on the Rox...they are likely trying to make a trade. But when you have no bench, and your best tradeable asset in the starter rotation is a disappointing EG and a shooting guard is a league not short on shooting guards...there are not that many options versus other teams.
     
  11. subtomic

    subtomic Contributing Member
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    I think that could be a potentially good trade, but I don't know if Rahim has the size to play PF in the West. He always played the 3 when he was with the Grizzlies. Really, he's a tweener (kind of like a really talented Cliff Robinson) and while Ming's size could cover this to some degree, you don't want the other team's center getting open dunks all the time because Ming is having to help Rahim on D.

    The other option is to start Rahim at the 3 and MoT at the 4, but then the Rockets would have to sign a backup PF. Even though it's been two years since his injury, I don't want to overwork MoT with 40 minutes a game. I suppose the Rockets could sign someone like Tyrone Hill or even Oakley (although I think he's done), but we'd still be weak at the PF spot.
     
  12. Bogey

    Bogey Contributing Member

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    This trade would be great. Any way we can get them to throw in Dickau to be our backup pg or would that be asking too much?
     
  13. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    It might be asking for too much as you can see that even getting SAR is hard. SAR is a good offensive player who can rebound well but he is a poor defender.He plays better in the low post as compared to the 3 spot but could have trouble with the bigger 4's in the West.If we could get a physical defender to back him up then he might fit the team.
     
  14. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    This trade idea has been brought up many times. Not really a new idea.

    I know a lot of people are not SAR fans and he is not your typical "banger" PF but you can't argue with his numbers. His contract is off the books in two years. He rarely is injured. He is a good citizen. He averages close to 20ppg and 8rpg while shooting close to 48%. He can play the 3 or the 4.

    I ask you, at Griffin's "potential" will he ever be a 20ppg, 8rpg player the way SAR is NOW? And remember, SAR is ONLY 26 years old!

    SAR would get us that "3rd" option on the team this team is looking for.

    I really think this is a trade the Rockets should consider if it is offered. I like Griffin a lot (I know a lot of people are down on him) but even though I like Griffin I still question if he will ever put out the production that SAR has been doing for years. With that said, I am not sure why one would NOT make this move.
     
  15. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    This trade would make the Rockets a luxury tax lock. I don't think they have the will to do it.
     
  16. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't put it past the Rockets; I'm sure they've been trying to make a trade.

    But many teams are in the same boat as us...new coaches, even new GMs and new owners.

    Atlanta only recently knew that it would retain its, er, main office guys? I think Stotts is the name of one. Anyway, what with their new ownership (maybe), they don't know what route to take. Hopefully that will change soon. (Brandon for Robinson was a no-brainer anyway.)

    About the luxury tax:

    Makes you wonder. This trade was brought up, I believe, at the trade deadline. Maybe management has their sights set on a certain player. Is it SAR? If we're looking at such a trade now, it might point out why we didn't sign Posey.

    Shareef's contract will be up after next season. Re-sign him at a Mo-like contract and the luxury tax won't seem as painful. Les is gonna be raking in the bucks anyway.

    The rotation would be more like: 5) Yao/Cato; 4) Mo/Shareef/Cato; 3) Shareef/Adrian G./Boki; 2) Cat/Piatk.; 1) Steve/Mo.

    If they do have anything in mind, GET IT DONE! I can't help but speculate. It's summer, I'm bored, ARGH.
     
    #16 ROXTXIA, Aug 25, 2003
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2003
  17. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    I like this one better:

    Atlanta trades: PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (19.9 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.1 minutes)
    PF Chris Crawford (4.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 7.6 minutes)
    Atlanta receives: SF Glen Rice (9.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.7 minutes)
    PG Moochie Norris (4.3 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 2.4 apg in 16.8 minutes)
    SF Bostjan Nachbar (2.1 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 5.5 minutes)
    Change in team outlook: -9.3 ppg, -4.6 rpg, and +0.5 apg.

    Houston trades: SF Glen Rice (9.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 1.1 apg in 24.7 minutes)
    PG Moochie Norris (4.3 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 2.4 apg in 16.8 minutes)
    SF Bostjan Nachbar (2.1 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.2 apg in 5.5 minutes)
    Houston receives: PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (19.9 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 3.0 apg in 81 games)
    PF Chris Crawford (4.8 ppg, 1.4 rpg, 0.2 apg in 5 games)
    Change in team outlook: +9.3 ppg, +4.6 rpg, and -0.5 apg.

    (works in RealGM)


    Throw in some draft picks and cash considerations.

    Then play Shareef, Eddie and Taylor at both forward positions. I would hate to lose Eddie's shot-blocking and potential. He is also a better rebounder than Shareef.

    PG: Francis, (FA)
    SG: Mobley, Piatkowski
    SF: Abdur-Rahim, A. Griffin
    PF: E. Griffin, Taylor
    C: Yao, Cato

    Later, see if you can get something for Taylor.

    What difference does it make to Atlanta now if they would get Eddie or not. They will suck either way. They should take the money and hope to get a high draft pick and a top free agent next year. Then they could potentially have three stars (Terry, top free agent and high draft pick) and a year later they could add a fourth. Then they could turn this thing around. Getting Eddie now wouldn't really do much of anything for them.

    So, Atlanta, do this and be happy! :)
     
  18. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Perhaps, but I think the Rockets would be more willing to go over the L-Tax for a player like SAR (20ppg, 8rpg, 3apg, 48% FG) than go over the tax for Posey, which they did not do. SAR is a borderline NBA All Star while somone like Posey is just a role player.

    I get the feeling the Rockets will only go over the tax if they got a player that would "put them over the top." SAR would do that in terms of the "playoffs".

    However, I am still not sure if they are willing to go over the L-Tax at all at this stage of the team's progress since it is not close to competing for a "championship." I think if this team was competing for a "championship" then I don't have any doubts that we would go over the L-Tax to improve the team much like the top Western Conference teams did this year in acquiring players to put their team over the top.

    PG: Francis, (Mark Jackson?), Moochie
    SG: Mobley, Pike
    SF: A Griffin, Nachbar
    PF: SAR, Taylor
    C: Yao, Cato

    That team would be a playoff team for sure! Plus you could slide SAR to SF and Taylor to PF or move Pike down to SF to give the team an offensive boost.
     
  19. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    not if the Luxury Tax never triggers again, and believe it that the owners have the access to league revenue data and the accountants to figure this out 9 mos in advance of the trigger date. If anyone can figure out whether the tax will trigger at the end of a season, the owners can.
     
  20. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Great idea, Ford. New, novel. (Moving Mo to the 3, that is. The other is rehash.)

    Is SAR worth Rice's contract (+ EG)? Tough call.

    SAR would have to spend most of his time at the 3, Hill signed to back up 4, IMO, for this to work.

    What, and when, will Rice's contract be worth? Before training camp? Trade deadline? Post season SnT? BTW - I say move him BEFORE he gets hurt!!!
     

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