Superstar in terms of how he's marketed. But true superstars play both ends really well. Harden is a legitimate all-star player but his lackadaisical approach to defense and turnovers prevent him from being in the highest of tiers.
Reading some of the responses here, it seems you can't criticise Harden just because Lin does it worse. That's bull****. Harden has his weaknesses and deserved to be mentioned like every other players, superstar or not. Yao or T-mac had their fair shares of criticisms.
I don't know how some of you can call yourself Rockets fans... or even basketball fans in general. This team has a serious problem with TO's. We are in the bottom 3 of the whole league. I don't care if his name is LeBron James Harden or Jerry Marketing Linn or Kelvin Cougars McHale. I don't care if he's freak all universe every freaking year. I don't care if he averaged 40 rebounds a game or +400 for the season or drove a lawn mower to the arena. ANYONE and EVERYONE that puts on a Rockets uniform is responsible for reducing his/her TO ratio. If you're getting a paycheck to play basketball for the Houston Rockets, you better take care of the ball. If you are paid to coach these professional athletes, you better harp on reducing TO's until the day AFTER it's accomplished. James Harden needs to lower his TO rate. So does Jenny Lynn... Dwight Ho, Omar Asick, Chandler Pumpfake-Travel Parsons. No exceptions. You play for the team, you ****in owe it to Les Alexander to do it. Even Michael Freakin Jordan played in the triangle offense when he could have b****ed and gotten Jordan Iso and scored gazillions of points. Do we have anyone on the team better than Jordan?? I don't think so.
Harden's dumb mistakes or flaws whether it be his defense or his TO's are because he is being LAZY or CARELESS and are easily remedied. -He makes up for them within the same quarter, and carries this team on his back most games. Lin's dumb mistakes are due to dumb decisions and inability to learn or adapt. Everyone knows how low his basketball IQ is. -He makes up for them every 1 out of 10 games or however long it takes to finally have a good one, and he can't even step up to take lead of "his" bench squad. Now, enough of this deflection, lets get back to figuring out why Lin keeps sucking so hard! :grin:
I think Lin could really improve if he learned to gauge risk versus reward better. A TO isn't the worst thing in the world if the successful pass would have resulted in a very high percentage shot. The difference that I see is that even if Lin's pass made it to the destination, it often doesn't provide the advantage consummate with the risk. Harden's TOs are often from not getting calls that he often gets. We need some Morey advanced analytics to compare. The raw numbers don't tell the whole story.
Purely based on Risk/reward, you've got a point. This is also why so many of our (defensively inept) guys play the passing lane and go for the steal. Our offense is so potent because we are willing to take many gambles, if the risk is minimal in comparison to the reward. We play a very disruptive game that can totally inundate a weaker opponent. However, our inexperience and youth is exposed against the big dogs. Bottom line, I don't necessarily mind the decisions our guys take, if they are following the gameplan and becoming better at maximizing the reward.
Exactly, this is why his assists look like this 3 3 2 0 3 3 1 2 3 2 9 10 2 3 7 2 2 Now, he only looks to pass when he's up in the air with no shot to take, or after he picks up the ball in the killzone because he's afraid to get blocked or draw contact. Maybe he's trying too hard. Maybe he's lost his heart. Probably both, but who the heck knows. Great failed thread btw
First off, if ppl like you wanna use this thread as another excuse to talk about Jeremy Lin then don't use me as scapegoat. That's your own obsession. I was just pointing out that due to all the talk about Lin, we miss out on how bad Harden is. Jeremy Lin sucks, period. But it's only right we switch the conversation to Harden who does make lazy turnovers. This is important going into the playoffs where the competition will exploit this. Yet you want to discuss Jeremy Lin more? Ok, that's fine
You brought this on yourself by 1.) Making a stupid thread with a terrible premise 2.) Referencing Lin in your original topic
1) Calling a topic "stupid" when ppl smarter than you have already acknowledged it as a concern is well, even stupider 2) Referencing all the talk surrounding a player is different than comparing him to another player. I wouldn't expect you to know the difference. Probably wasting my time anyway
I don't believe that anyone has said that turnovers don't matter or that we shouldn't be trying to cut them down. Unfortunately turnovers happen and the faster you play the more possessions you get and that increases your likelhood of turning the ball over. Houston plays at a fast pace so they are likely always going to have more turnovers than teams that play at a slower pace. Take a look at the teams who are just above Houston in the turnover category: OKC, Denver, Golden State, Phoenix, Lakers. What's the common factor among those teams? They all play at a fast pace. The Spurs only average 1.3 fewer turnovers per game than Houston and that's because they play fast. Individually, Harden has many more opportunites to turn the ball over. That's why several have already suggested that you look at turnover rate as opposed to just raw total turnovers. Nobody is happy with turnovers but they happen. Lebron James turns the ball over at about the same rate as Harden. No matter who you are, there's going to be turnovers. An appropriate analogy is "outs" in baseball. Nobody thinks outs are good or shouldn't be reduced but the fact is that they happen. You can make outs 66% of the time and you're in the hall of fame. Sure I can say player x shouldn't make outs or make them at a lower rate but that's not realistic. If Harden were turning the ball over at a much higher rate than similar players then I'd agree but he isn't. Chris Paul is the poster boy for high usage players not turning the ball over but he's an exception. What other top scorers who handle the ball alot don't have turnover numbers comparible to Harden? I could make the statement that Harden should miss fewer shots and that we shouldn't be ok with missed shots but that would obviously be unreasonable. Unfortunately players turn the ball over sometimes and the more you handle the ball the more your chances go up.
