What has that to do with Kanter a citizen that without taking any action to overthrow anything he got his passport rescinded? "These groups who are against him are simply being dealt with." That I agree. They are being dealt with in short order. In prisons torture and exile. No bother with details like human rights or anything like that.
they killed hundreds of innocent citizens when they staged the coupe they got dealt with. in america we kill you if you kill innocent people. how is it any different?
Well of course they will say nice things. You can get arrested for saying anything negative about the President. Thousands of people have been prosecuted for saying bad things about him. Turkey leads the world at putting journalists in prison. On and on. There's no free speech there, so "ask the people" is a fool's errand.
That's not all. Hitler was loved. Kim Jung Ill was loved. That's a horrendous metric. That's a dumb one. With enough military might and a powerful secret police I too can make a country love me as well. It doesn't mean you're free. If you aren't free to question your government, you aren't free. Case in point, support Hillary, support Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, hell, say you hate trump, you won't get arrested here. That's freedom.
so the people love him, and yet we hear how the election was rigged and all this negative crap you keep hearing in the media. I have videos during the coupe and I wish I recorded some more stuff I saw the first night because it was so beautiful and courageous to see how citizens stand up for their leader. millions celebrated everywhere for the next week while I was there. The problem I think is a lot of people think they know everything because they read an article or watch a news story and they really don't. everyone on the Internet thinks they know everything about everything. You actually have to read books, communicate, and visit places to learn things. You're not gonna learn anything watching TV and surfing the Internet. People do this all day, every day and think they know everything. I admit I didn't know anything about turkey until I visited last summer. After seeing all of the crap I saw on the news I was scared to go there but I already had my ticket and I went anyway and I learned a lot. I understand why people want erdogan out. these groups want to own the world, every country worth owning, including Turkey. Turkey is one of the oldest countries in the world with a very rich and unique history. it is the bridge between and east and the west and tourists all over the world visit. The problem is its owned by the people and not the club who want to own everything.
Bro, there mere fact that you think most/all of the population of 80 million people would be happy with the same choice as leader demonstrates that your understanding of humans and mathematics and psychology is porous. There is no such thing. And I don't mean in Turkey or right now or for a while. I mean, factually, there is no such thing in existence as 80-90% of 80 million people happy with one singular human being as the lead decision maker. Ever. There's another gigantic hole in your argument where I can bring you a wealth of experience. You are totally ignorant about how oppressed citizens behave in an oppressive country. In all non-democratic countries, the most common response you will hear is that they love the leader. That's followed by the next most common response: change the subject. That's followed by the next most common response: everyone has problems. And on and on. This is the case in any country where undercover agents monitoring citizens is rampant, where telecoms surveillance has zero transparency, where media is heavily influenced by government. You can NOT make people love a dictator/government. It hasn't been done that way in thousands of years except for a few outlier exceptions. What you do is make it very profitable (through selective job opportunities, profitable public exposure, selective subsidies) to SAY you love the country/dictator, and you can make it extremely dangerous and unprotected to say you don't love the country. That's enough. That's why in the most of today's dictatorships, even a person who hates the government will flat out lie to you and say they love it. It's just safer and easier and a shorter conversation. That's not to say there aren't tons of people who love Erdogan. I'm sure 20-30% of the country are hardcore supporters of Erdogan. I'm sure another 10-20% are hardcore against the local alternatives to Erdogan. Then there are people who hate Erdogan and don't want the American-led neo-liberal cancer to seize the country. And there are people who hate Erdogan and don't want Turkey to fall into the decrepit hands of Vladimir Putin. Then there's a giant portion of people who don't give a F to varying degrees. And then there are uber rich people who hate Erdogan but love how much money he sends their way. There's complexity. Just like every other place in the world. In fact, the moment you go above a population of a few hundred humans in any setting, there is massive complexity. Erdogan may have done lots of economic good for Turkish people in the past, but he is certainly not the best choice for the future than every other Turkish person alive today. Not even close. And the problem is not with the positive he can bring. The problem is that he is seeking expanded power to land a "job" which he has not had before and a job that is totally unacceptable at this juncture of human existence. Enes Kanter should speak his mind, people need to know what each other think. Turkish people have lived too long under a fear of what the government can do to them and Erdogan's choices have given the opportunity for foreign governments to find weaknesses in Turkey to exploit. There is no doubt the foreign policy of other countries in the world is to place foreign interests above Turkish interests even if it results in the murder/death of innocent Turkish people. But Erdogan is not the person to solve that problem, less democracy is never the answer as you clearly outlined by listing some problems in the United States.
who did Kanter kill to "be dealt with"? Who did the journalists that end up in jail kill? How is it any different than the usa? ....seriously? Didn't a couple of NBA players go out in public and said that Trump is an idiot and racist? Why weren't their passports rescinded?
You went there, I'm sure. But you definitely did not learn a lot. You just fell for the propaganda. If you go to North Korea or any other brutal dictatorship where the population faces repercussions over criticism, you'll find the same thing. Ergodan is using the you exactly how he wants.
Its pretty obvious Brown Lost It has no idea what he's talking about, for a population of 80M you can't look at dozens of people "standing up for their leader" during a coup and say the entire country loves him wtf. Newsflash every dictator ever has a certain demographic that loves him, if everybody hates his guts he would have been shot already. Doesn't mean the entire country loves him, 10M could be for the president but the rest of the 70M are experiencing a living hell. The OP reminds of Dennis Rodman who went to North Korea and became buddy buddy woth Kim Jong Un with his comments regarding how everyone who criticized the Turk pres killed 100s of people and deserves to be jailed and how beautiful it was to see the common people rise up to protect their dictator president. WTF you can't make this **** up.
where any of those NBA players disowned by their parents publicly? all of you guys keep saying he is a dictator for no reason. He was voted in by the people. Apparently he doesn't have control of the military which every dictator would. I want to understand why you guys hate him so much and all I have read is he is a dictator and a bad man. Really that's it that's all you have? Turkey is booming and doing very well and growing nonstop, but he's apparently a very bad been doing a very bad job? OK whatever. is it because his blood type is not RH negative like every single US president and 90% of the world rulers? maybe because he wasn't related like Hillary and trump are? Or bush and kerry? Just saying maybe he's not in the club. call me out on any of this and I will gladly link it.
It's not as though the Turkish people are overwhelmingly in his favor. He won the referendum by a vote of 51.4%. So quite literally, the country is basically split in half. This nationalistic pride that you keep trying to convince us all of simply isn't there, @Brown Lost It. I understand that you went there, and had a fabulous time. That's great, but it's pretty naive to formulate your entire opinion of a country's political landscape because of a few conversations you had with people. Especially from people who have been persecuted and treated horribly when they've been outspoken. Just on the surface alone, rescinding the passports of over 50,000 citizens because they are viewed as "enemies of the state" is a horrific precedent to set. Historically, anybody who strikes down opposition within his own domestic borders with brute force and cruelty has never been looked upon favorably by the rest of the world. This is not to mention the 120,000 people who lost their jobs only to be replaced by his party puppets. And, on top of all that, he's taken his ****-show on the road, and threatened reporters and officials OUTSIDE of Turkish borders. All of this while unemployment rose about 10% while economic growth shrunk 3%. Look, I'm not trying to influence you, but I don't think things are nearly as rosy as you're interpreting them to be. If anything, there's most likely a very real middle ground here where the truth actually lies.
The juxtaposition of such an eloquently stated post with your profile picture of the two chicks at the same time guy from office space (Lars is it? I'm not sure it's been a month since I last saw it) leaves me in stitches. Regardless, amazing post. I'm glad Kanter is seeking US citizenship, and I hope he gets it. Edit: God damn it, his name is Lawrence. I knew that. Ugh.
OK, you think I only asked a few people but you have no idea what I saw. please don't act like you know more than his freaking parents who disowned him. name the last time a famous sports player has been disowned publicly by their parents. He won the first democratic election in 2014. not sure how that makes him a dictator. Tell me what he does that pisses people off so much besides having the wrong blood type. how a country can have the most economic growth, development and success it's ever had, and still be poorly run by its president?
Being disowned by your parents does not mean they don't live in a dictatorship, nor does it mean he deserved to have his passport revoked. If Turkey was the bastion of freedom and prosperity you say it was they wouldn't give a damn what Kanter thinks/says/does. Look, I'm not saying turkey is Iraq, but it has its problems. I don't think you even know what real freedom is if you can liken what they have to freedom. That saddens me. Economic growth is not a marker of freedom (see china). A liked leader is not a marker of freedom (see every evil dictator ever). A country where you are allowed to criticize the government, where regime changes are done without bloodshed, and where you have both the right to vote and the right to not vote out of apathy are where freedom ring. Trump didn't have to kill Hillary to take office. The Democrats don't have to kill trump to get impeachment proceedings forward. That's freedom.
