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Dwight Howard Calls Out Stan Van Gundy

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Lil Pun, May 13, 2009.

  1. MisterPink

    MisterPink Member

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    I don't really care about what he said,

    but if he really thinks that he could have won that game in the crunch he is sorely mistaken. The best thing he could have done for his team was get the ball himself.

    I haven't watched him a whole lot this year, but I have been watching him in the playoffs. It's not even like he's got OK post offense; it's terrible. I would almost say it "sucks". He has a long way to go.
     
  2. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Eh, how about grabbing a few that counted most?

    Howard had grant total of 1 rebound in the 12-minute 4th quarter he played, 0 in last 5+ minutes when Celtics made their run.

    If one looks for an example of being overrated, that's right there.
     
  3. freemaniam

    freemaniam 我是自由人

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    Before Howard complains about his touches, he needs to prove he deserves them

    By John Hollinger

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playo...?columnist=hollinger_john&page=PERDiem-090513

    [rQUOTEr]Nine possessions. Six minutes and 45 seconds off the clock. And in that time, not one touch for the Orlando Magic's All-Star big man Dwight Howard, as a 14-point lead frittered away.

    It's a big controversy Wednesday morning, and nearly everyone seems to be in agreement that the Magic blundered by not getting the ball to their superstar down the stretch. Howard shone a spotlight on this when he called out his coach, Stan Van Gundy, during the news conference after Orlando's 92-88 loss in Game 5 to the Celtics.

    Here's the really weird part: All the evidence says the Magic did exactly what they should have done. Even Howard's own statements back it up.

    "I don't think you're going to win a lot of games when your post player only gets 10 shots," Howard said.

    Actually, the Magic have won a lot of games when Howard has gotten only 10 shots. They were 16-7 during the regular season when Howard attempted 10 field goals or fewer, a .696 winning percentage that comes close to their .720 mark overall.

    The other thing you might have noticed is that this isn't a rare event. Howard took 10 shots or fewer in 23 of the 79 games he played and averaged only 12.4 per game on the season.

    Moreover, virtually no correlation exists between his shot attempts and winning. He took 12.5 shots in wins and 12.2 in losses. He took 12.6 in games Jameer Nelson played before suffering a season-ending shoulder injury and 12.2 with Rafer Alston afterward. He took 10 to 15 shots in 48 of his 79 games.

    So for him to take 10 in a slow-paced playoff game isn't much of an outlier. It's actually completely, utterly normal.

    Moreover, on Tuesday night the Magic lost their first postseason game in which Howard took 10 shots or fewer. They had won the previous three, including a 114-89 romp over Philadelphia in Game 6 of the first round when a suspended Howard didn't take any shots.

    "You've got a dominant player. Let him be dominant," Howard said.

    Really? Prove it.

    Everyone is killing the Magic for not getting Howard post touches down the stretch. Have you seen this guy's post game? It's not good, especially when he's going against a wide-body like Kendrick Perkins who can get under him and muscle him into a running 10-foot hook shot.

    Howard made five field goals and four turnovers Tuesday night, and that's because he couldn't score one-on-one against Perkins, just as he's been unable to do all series. Howard's baskets in this series haven't come on post isolations. They've come when somebody else has penetrated and fed him on the move, or when he has grabbed an offensive board and slammed it home.

    Howard scored twice off putbacks Tuesday night, and three other times directly off passes from Hedo Turkoglu. But in post-ups, he was useless. Orlando went to him on the first two plays of the game. He missed a shot on the first and committed a turnover on the second.

    "The coaches have to recognize what's working on the floor and stick with it," Howard said.

    They did, and that's why Howard didn't get the ball. Orlando's three highest scorers in the game were Rashard Lewis, Alston and Turkoglu. On Orlando's last eight trips, the ball was in the hands of Lewis, Alston and Turkoglu. They accounted for all the shots and turnovers on those trips.

    Yes, it would have been great if Orlando hadn't essentially played a prevent offense -- something it has done in the fourth quarter in four of the past seven games against Boston -- but that was immaterial to Howard's argument. The Magic allowed the players who had been most effective all game to take the shots during crunch time.

    "When you're in a situation where guys got it going, you know everybody's moving the ball and the energy is up, you have to stick with … what works," said Howard, taking a shot at Van Gundy's late substitutions.

    A couple of thoughts here. First, there's a small kernel of truth in the sense that replacing Mickael Pietrus with an ice-cold J.J. Redick at the 3:56 mark was probably not the way to go. Score one for Howard.

    On other hand, the two other substitutions replaced Tony Battie and Anthony Johnson with Lewis and Alston. Do you really want Battie to get more run out there instead of your leading scorer? Do you really want a scoreless Johnson on the floor instead of Alston? It's easy to question in hindsight because Lewis and Alston stopped scoring in the fourth after they had been killing the Celtics all game, but this was obviously the right percentage move.

    Finally, watch what you wish for, big fella: If Van Gundy were to follow this policy, you'd be Marcin Gortat's backup. The Magic blasted Philadelphia in Game 6 with Gortat starting in the middle, and in the Boston series, Gortat has a plus/minus of plus-16 while Howard's is minus-17. When Howard checked out with 7:36 left in the third quarter Tuesday, he wasn't missed. In fact, the Magic extended their lead.

    I think it's a good thing, in a way, that Howard stepped up to become more vocal about his role and that he wants the game to rest on his shoulders. I just don't understand why everyone else is jumping on what he said and ignoring the facts.

    Howard normally doesn't get many shots because he's not a good one-on-one scorer, and the Magic win all the time when he takes a dozen shots or so. If he can prove he deserves more by converting some post-up chances, more power to him. If not, this is much ado about nothing.[/rQUOTEr]
     
  4. vinsensual

    vinsensual Member

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    I wonder what the correlation is between wins/losses and the amount of shots Rafer takes. And inbounding to Howard? What botched play call has DH going to the top of the key?

    And what about the shot clock reversal? I thought the Spurs Kings game last month demonstrated the arbitrary rule that shot clock issues could not be reviewed or reversed? Especially this time since there wasnt conclusive evidence that the shot hit rim.
     
  5. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    I don't know how anyone can compare DH's lack of touches with Yao's. Unless he's playing against a scrub center, Dwight Howard's post game is non-existent. He has no range.
     
  6. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Complaining behind closed doors with SVG seems to be a problem or not work at all -- it's like you have to make a statement to the media to get his attention. Riley tried to get him to chill/ change his ways for half a season before he finally just took the team over. If Howard is saying things at a news conference then I bet that locker room is about to boil over.
     
  7. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Thank you, John Hollinger. If SVG is a problem, fine, but Howard calling for more touches is just absurd. It is painful to watch his postup game. I can't believe someone said Hakeem should teach him some moves -- Howard has maybe 0.05 the hand-eye and foot-eye coordination of Hakeem.
     
  8. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    I am usually hard on John Hollinger's prediction work, but I've got to admit John Hollinger is a helluva analyst.
     
  9. rrj_gamz

    rrj_gamz Contributing Member

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    Agreed...what an idiot...If we was dominating the game, ok, but c'mon, he was a non-factor, grabbing some rebounds...
     
  10. cson

    cson Contributing Member

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    Is Stan Bizzaro-Jeff Van Gundy?
     
  11. tone-weezy

    tone-weezy Member

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    First off, Perkins is a terrific post defender...one of the best in the league. He's frustrated Howard and has been able to defend without fouling; which is one his greatest strengths as a post defender...most of his fouls come from either illegal picks or over the back rebound calls.

    The idea that Howard is basically a role player in their offense is flat out wrong. All the open 3's they get are from the attention he draws when he dives to the rim off the pick n roll. Also while he only averaged 12.4 shot attempts this season, he led the league in FT attempts(10.7) but only took 3 in game 5 to go with the 10 shot attempts.

    Orlando's problem against Boston is that they have no great or even really good perimeter scorers. Chicago at times scored at will against them but everything has been a struggle for Orlando cause they have no slashers. Dribble penetration kills half court defense but the best they can do is give the ball to Lewis (whose handle is worse than Artests') to go against Big Baby cause all those pick n rolls dry up when the game gets tight.
     
  12. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    I disagree completely. I think his perimiter shooters create offensive space for him, because you can't leave them. Isn't that specifically why they brought Lewis in? I believe the year prior Howard had no space to operate, so they surrounded him with guys who could jack to give him some.
     
  13. Depressio

    Depressio Contributing Member

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    Stan Van Gundy is not Rick Adelman. Adelman preaches to get the ball to Yao, his players just don't do it. It seems like Van Gundy actually ran plays NOT to get the ball to Dwight, and Dwight is letting him have it.

    That being said, Dwight is going about it the wrong way. You approach the coach, not the media. This just gets the coach pissed at you.
     
  14. ibm

    ibm Member

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    this is wrong in so many fronts.

    for one, going public stirs up major chemistry issues within the team amongst coaches and teammates. this can't possibly help the team when the magic now faces elimination. it's just not the way things are done in the nba, as kenny has said on tv.

    not convincing. dh's shots and touches have been about the same of his regular season #'s. so it's not like all of the sudden his team was ignoring him. if complaining now, why not do it then?

    when the celts made the run, dh was a non-factor on both ends of the floor. i don't this possibly bode well with his teammates who were on the floor at the time.

    last, like many others, i am not sure his offensive skills are good enough yet to be that player in the clutch.

    expect one of stan van gundy and dh to leave the magic a couple of years from now.
     
  15. tone-weezy

    tone-weezy Member

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    Your not saying anything. Every offense NEEDS spacing provided by shooters.

    They dont have one great pick n roll player on their team (Nelson is the closest and he's just a jumpshooter) and all they do is run pick n roll. Why? cause Howard isn't "great" in the low post and none of the other guys can get clean looks consistently.

    They run a pick n roll with Howard as he dives to the rim he draws defenders in and the weakside is open to either shoot the 3 or pumpfake and drive or swing it and driving lanes are open do to the D being in rotation....thats basically their halfcourt offense. Problem is, as the game gets tight and slows down; those 3s are taken away. You NEED someone on the perimeter who can create against a set defense late in games and Orlando really doesn't have anyone... thats what makes Boston a horrible matchup for them. No one in the league can grind out games like Boston...with or without KG.
     
  16. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Howard offensive game may not be as polished as it needs to be but there is no excuse for him only getting 1 touch in the last 6 minutes of the game.
     
  17. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    With all due respect there are 3 reasons off the top of my head why Howard only got one touch at the end:

    1. He can't create any shot for himself unless he's directly under the basket
    2. His FT is horrible
    3. He's turnover prone

    Howard need to eventually realize that his offensive game isn't at a place where he can freely demand the ball. Either work on that part of his game or plan to score only on dunks and putbacks for the rest of his career
     
  18. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Funny...I thought their P&R worked so well for them because you couldn't double down on Howard and give their shooters space (Turk, Lewis and Nelson when he was balling this season). Basically, most of his points come from folks creating shots for him, or the points he gets off offensive boards. It's usually not the other way around...Howard creating for them. He is a bigger version of Amare.......
     
  19. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Great post. You can call Turkey-Glue a slasher, but he's so slow-footed I consider that a stretch. I disagree with you on one thing: Turkey-Glue and Rashard Lewis can be considered good perimeter scorers, but their lack of a first step makes them fairly easy to guard. When Rashard's outside shot isn't falling, he's close to worthless. His limitations are really on display this series. Watching him struggle when isolated against Scalabrine is amazing (I missed much of game 5). Even if Rashard had learned to dribble, he's too stiff and doesn't finish well enough to be a great slasher.

    Even with all of this, the Magic have no business being down 3-2. Their lack of heart, lack of leadership (including the coach) and general gutlessness is their downfall against the Celts. Their complete lack of effort and killer instinct in game 2 and their choke jobs in games 4 & 5 prove it. Even before Howard's outburst, you could see SVG grates on the players. To compound it, there is no player on the roster to rally (or kick) the others when the going gets tough.
     
  20. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Only 1 in the entire 4th quarter, and it came with 5:26 remaining.
     

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