Unfortunately the statistics are difficult- I guess we have to come at this in a round about way as I dont think they keep count of double teams. I did not say that Yao does not get double teamed even when Tmac is there- my point was that he does not get double teamed as much as people say by citing what a coach or a fellow player says. The 30% figure- as I made it clear was a guesstimate- just to stake out where I stand ( as opposed to say 70%)- and I am talking about on an Average- not in a particular game or a particular team or a specific situation.
no offense again anitasri, but i don't know where you are trying to get with this thread. you use the theory that Yao gets double teamed about "30% of the time" to prove a point that JJ Redick is not the man we should pick up? I'm confused. If this thread is about how Yao getting double teamed would not translate into quality points from a perimeter player like Redick may I request you watch "Rockets: 2005-2006 season" to see what a player that can shoot at a high % does for a team.
I just want to know, by your guesstimation, how often does the players like Duncan, shaq, brand or Dirk get double teamed.
It would turn out into quality points for a Perimeter Shooter- absolutley no doubt about that. The problem I have with Redick is simple- even if you give him a 0.45 percent accuracy on his perimeter shooting! - the offense he will bring to the table will be negated by his defense or lack there of- I just dont see him matching up with a Josh Howard or Manu or and other 6' 6'' SG from a contending Western Conference team. I would not reall pick Redick at the 8 th spot for sure- just a cost benefit issue with me.
the optimist in me would rather see Redick's points being negated by the opponent's SG any night of the week if it means I get a break from watching the other team's SG go off for 30 points while ours can't manage to even hit 33% of their shots.
Steddi This is slightly off topic- but take a look at the NeT points by Position for the Rockets http://www.82games.com/0506/0506HOU5.HTM If we want to do better- We need to reduce the differential at PG and The SG spots- again it is the Differential not how much of offense a candidate brings. So if at the SG slot we can reduce the - 5.2 to even -2 that would be improvement- this would be regardless of the player you wanted to pick. While Redick can theoretically improve the the offense- IMHO he will not make the differential better. A second level of that analysis would be - the cost of acquisition of such a player- so you put all of your SG candidates and evaluate who gives you more bang for the buck- so here again I would have an issue with Redick at the 8 th spot. The PF position is misleading- because JHO put up numbers but his defense is horrible- if we had a Shelden Williams in the line Up ( Jho as Back Up)- I would think that differential would be much more positive. Plus YAo will be even more dangerous with a decent PF by his side. My discussion is only limited to the Rockets- if he does put 30 points up with Phoenix- so be it. Those stats will be meaningless until Phoenix can play defense at crucial stages in the game.
Check out the graph below. It breaks down different play types for a player as a percentage of his total offense. It defines "Post up" as single coverage post up which ends in a field goal attempt, free throws attempts, or a turnover. It defines "Post up doubled" as a post up which draws a double team and ends in a turnover or a pass out to a teammate who takes the shot, gets free throws, or turns it over (so, it doesn't count pass outs where the receiver passes the ball again). Posts ups as Percentage of Offense Code: [COLOR=Navy] Post ups Post ups doubled[/COLOR] Yao 67.3% 11.7% (14.8% of total post ups) Shaq 56.1% 14.5% (20.5% of total post ups) Duncan 39.8% 12.3% (23.6% of total post ups)
Just so that anitasri doesn't take this info and runs it without context, I'd like to re-quote this point. It doesn't take into account passes out of the post that gets swung around, or zone denials. Not that it skews the numbers that much, but I just wanted to point it out. And my position that this thread's main argument doesn't take into account the concept of a dependent adjustment/counter-adjustment corollary still stands. It's not so much that Yao getting doubles x percent will allow a 45% 3pt shooter Y amount of scoring. It's that a 45% 3pt shooter can score Y amount of points AND keep the double teams from doubling Yao x+ percent of the time.
Agreed- But it will atleast give you some pause to think that teams double teaming Yao- will provide significant opportunities for a Perimeter player to capitalize. It is not as simple as you guys were making it out. Well if you want to argue Dependent Adjustment/Counter adjustment- if teams keep getting burned by leaving the 3 Point shooter open- will also not double team so predicatably! It still points out to the fact that of the Post up plays that Yao does have- only a smaller portion lead to kick outs. While this is not proof positive- ( as you would argue what post-up really is)- atleast it should give you pause. Durvasa - appreciate the stats.
This entire thread is rediculous (Redickulous?). Anyone who has watched the Rockets since JVG got here has seen that they have little to no difficulty in generating open 3 pt looks. If that is generated by Yao being doubled, by fronting with the off-side player sagging down, by TMac being doubled, by a trap on the PG, or by a penetrator drawing a help defender, makes absolutely zero difference. The team took over 17 threes per game, and nearly every one was a wide open shot. Making 33.2% of them is unacceptable. I would love to be able to get Redick at a lower pick so we could get something else as well, but the talk is about him dazzling the teams he is working out for and if we pass on him after Minny and Boston, then Seattle will probably grab him at 10. I would love to get Redick and another player, but I would rather have just Redick than just Carney, just Brewer, or just Ager, because Redick addresses the single most glaring weakness of this team.
Talk is cheap. If your premise is Redich is the 3 point shooter we need to salivate about- the facts are definitely not there. Redick is NOT the best 3 point shooter in the draft- period.
Thanks for the graph. Man, Yao works hard for his shots. Free Yao, let him take those 15 footer that Ducan is allowed to take. And have him drive once he opens up from 15 foot. Hats off to Yao, he scores man points. Dont you ever call him soft.
Yes he is. Other players may have shot for a higher percentage in college, but not facing the defense that Redick did. He became the all time leading ACC scorer on the strength of his three point shooting. He also was known for launching bombs from well outside the arc. I would guess that Redick leads all rooks in 3pt% next season with a reasonable minimum number of attempts. There is a reason no one is talking about drafting Novak at #8.
You must be crazy. After Yao burnt Dallas with 27 points and 10 boards in the first half in the 3rd game against Dallas this past season, they double teamed him the whole second half. And in the 4th game at Dallas, he was literally triple teamed the whole night.
After reading through half of the thread, I come to the conclusion that this thread is clueless and a POS.
Man points are scored at least with 3 bangs on the body and offensive put backs. Sissy points, 7 footer takes jumper, and pump fake to the hoop. Sissy points are also scored by flopping and looking angry on every loose ball due to slapping.
Apparently you did not read the entire post. The whole time I was referring to was the overall picture- not a particular game. You guys dont accept facts- It is easy to get carried away by anecdotal information. What I said does hold good- Yao does not get Double teamed that often ( atleast as often it is made out to be) A sign of an intelligent person is to react to the the idea that I have put forward- if you dont agree, go ahead and show me the data to the contrary. Let us just stop juvenile comments because either you dont understand or you dont have facts to prove me wrong.
