Does Torture Work? The C.I.A.’s Claims and What the Committee Found

Do you know that I can't be sure that I have accurate information, or is that just an assumption?

 

Almost every assertion made on the D&D at some level is based on assumption, including yours. It's also convenient that any information that doesn't fit your narrative is conveniently under the "shall not be trusted" bin. Selection bias at it's finest.

 

Please share your national security and intelligence sources for accurate information that hasn't been "approved for consumption".

 

Stop. That's not what happened at all. It didn't start on 9/12, as if all of a sudden they had to make up a torture program within 24 hours while GWB was off in Louisiana reading "My Pet Goat" and ****ed it up. That is fiction.

The CIA (and FBI, and DIA and various military/law enforcement agencies) had dozens, if not hundredsof interrogation professionals on hand. These were the people who were able to get the useful information from the detainees.

Most of these individuals advised against, and had no affinity or affection for torture, rahter favoring traditional non-torture interrogation techniques. This was contemporaneously debated at the time - why do you think the torture memos were made and Goldsmith resigned at all that? And the same debate was going on in public as well.

The torture program wasn't started until July/August 2002 with Abu Zubayadh - nearly a year after September 11, 2001. It was also started several months after he was arrested and had already revealed most of his useful information to FBI investigators - who used traditional non-torture methods.

And of course, as we found out - it was useless, all it did was degrade and devalue everybody who was involved and embarrass the whole country.

This is just silly. The CIA concealed the extent of its torture ****show from congress, the OIG, the DOJ, and even the President & such (though the extent of that is debatable, plausible deniability and willful blindness and such) and repeatedly exaggerated its value. That's not solved by greater oversight - intentional misconduct and intentional concealment from oversight is actually solved by punishing the transgressors.

And it's not going to be solved by having people taking freaking Arabic classes; are you kidding with that? ****ing rosetta stone classes are all we need? Good god, quel naif.

Expose the torturers and their dirty, stupid, futile, nasty, ugly business to the light of day. You see how they react, just like Cheney. With characteristic guilt, shame, and embarrassment.

 

we know that when it comes to intel and national security we were not being told the truth...that is the point. the bush/cheney administration were lying to us and committing war crimes.

im just going off reports by our own defense department, the united states army, the red cross and military intelligence officers and investigators...but if you have evidence to contradict them then lets see it.

and its funny that you mentioned enron...in 1999 it would have republicans who would have been telling you about how great enron was doing. the bush family had very close ties to that company and its CEO, ken "kenny boy" lay, who was also a major fundraiser for the republican party and bush in particular. when bush won election in 2000 kenny boy flew him and laura to DC on an enron corporate jet.

so yeah, good point bobbythegreat...enron is yet another example of republicans and bush not being trustworthy at all.