Does Torture Work? The C.I.A.’s Claims and What the Committee Found

So for those of you who thought that this report would somehow cause the American people to rally against torture....Nope.

 

Why would anyone think that would have happened? Most likely this report is chock full of bogint, and even if it wasn't people generally didn't care about what happened to terrorists even before 9-11 and all of the beheadings since then....There's a strong sentiment that they were just getting what they deserved.

 

except those that were not terrorists and were tortured.

 

Do you really know that, or just think you do because you read a report that was approved for your consumption?

 

Who gives a ****? It doesn't matter at all that the American people "rally against torture".

Torture is already illegal. This report didn't change that, rather it cemented the fact that it was ineffective and useless and that the pro torture crowd was untruthful about it.

This is all in the public record now - and that's the point, not some dumb poll. The torture program was exposed for what it was, as we're the perpetrators. This type of shame and their corrrsponding rage and guilt will be their legacy, as they certainly won't be going to jail. And believe me, they care.

It hurts Dick Cheney that he'll be mentioned alongside internment camps and other embarrassing national stains in history. That's why he's fighting so hard against it.

 

We don't run our government on "sending a message", Sam. The Tea Party does enough of that. I would prefer that our government sits down like adults and actually figure out how to prevent this from happening again as opposed to thinking about what history books will say about Dick Cheney in 30 years. From what I can tell, you're more concerned about the latter.

 

Yes why hold your leaders accountable for the things they did

 

Doesn't seem to make a difference to Cheney and the pro-torture crowd:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cheney-torture-report-innocent-detainee

 

Even Dick Cheney acknowledges there were people wrongfully held.

 

what about all the innocent people who were captured, detained, tortured and in some cases sexually assaulted and/or murdered?

 

rather than repeat myself i went and found some of my posts from 2006-2007 that i would like to add...

 

As always, The Simpsons nailed it:

 

Why don't you play out this scenario in your universe where the government sits down like adults and prevents this from happening again?

It happened the first time when torture was already illegal, when we already knew it didn't work, and when there was substantial opposition to it within the government itself.

What do you want, a bipartisan bill that torture is extra-really-super-illegal? Sadly, we couldn't pass that anyway due to GOP nuttery, so what honestly are you saying needs to happen that's not currently happening, and why do you think covering this all up is going to prevent it?

 

Again, do you know any of that for a fact or are you just repeating things that you heard others tell you that was approved for your consumption? You might as well be telling me about how great Enron was doing in 1999 because they said they were doing great. When it comes to intelligence and national security, don't assume that you are being told the truth, you almost never are.....even when it's negative.

 

Someone posted a link 7 posts before yours that has the video of Dick Cheney, the biggest defender of "enhanced interrogation" tactics, admitting that innocents were held in certain circumstances.

 

Mental gymnastics is strong here.

 

I think Torture would work, because everyone has a breaking point, and I think at some point soldiers or terrorists ask themselves does the military have my back at the end service, and they really don't seem to have your back even in America. So then it just comes down to if you give them some leads to avoid the torture, will they kill you or adopt you as one of their own. Now putting all these people together in the same compound, where they can chat and plan, build leadership, is dumb. So you do need to isolate them.

 

Let me give an example. One reason that this mess occurred is that on 9/12, the CIA realized, "Oh, we don't actually have anyone who's really specialized in interrogation." Because such institutions are not easy to create, and since there was intense pressure to get results quickly since we didn't know when the next terrorist attack would be, the CIA did ad hoc measures like paying a couple of frauds $80 million.

That right there is a bureaucratic mistake that should be corrected, and there are other bureaucratic mistakes that led to this outcome. Fix those mistakes. You don't even need a bill for that. You need oversight by Congress, sure, and that's part of it. Maybe actually promote Arab language and culture courses in universities so we have people who better understand them, and so on. Little things like fixing bureaucracy and gaining a better understanding of Arabic cultures will work slowly, but it will do a better job at promoting real change than all the newspaper columns in the world about this hideous and unforgivable outrage.

Perhaps I'm optimistic. I guess I do believe that the pressure of ensuring the next 9/11 did not happen as well as a lack of effective means was what led to this, and not that the CIA is just filled with a bunch of SS wannabees.

 

Please refrain from posting anymore opinions about national security or intelligence matters because you can't be sure that you have accurate information.