Do you Agree? - Bomani Jones implies Steph Curry no superstar, 'best system player' ever

1. Yeah, you said that. A 1st grader can throw a ball if that's all you're going to argue.
2. Yeah the front office chooses who is on the court to win those chips. Otherwise, you're coming off the court. AKA, even if you're good at moving without the ball and nailing the catch & shoot, if the coaching staff sucks and doesn't want to use it, you're going to be forced to play a game that limits your abilities. Every great NBA player goes through this. It takes an excellent coaching staff and front office to be utilizing all the players' talents. AKA Steve Kerr & the GSW system, Pop, etc.. You keep arguing that they don't matter because players are on the court winning the chip -- but, the players don't get to choose if they're on the court or not, the coaching staff and the front office does. The players are only allowed to win the chip by the front office and the coach. If you don't fall in line, you're coming off the court to get traded or be benched for the remainder of the games. Also the roster gets made by the front office, not by the players. Only free agents get to choose where they're going.
3. It's hard for Steph to win Finals MVP because of the other great players? I thought you said he's the most irreplaceable piece of that roster?
4. I have no idea why you're so damn obsessed w/ those 2015 warriors. That roster won 1 chip and the next year fell to Lebron. I'm not going to reiterate players I like better than Steph. I'll just add more to that list -- Kyrie, CP.
5. Dame can stay loyal and not jump ship like everyone else (Steph definitely will jump ship at some point if GSW is not contending, and they won't be contending. Hope you stay a fan afterwards). Dame has had some of the most memorable clutch shots in recent NBA playoffs history, I don't remember a single one from Steph. Partly because I hate him, but mostly because he's not known for that.
6. Like I said, his defense sucks. I don't care what you want to call it, it's a major deficiency in his game.

 

1. You're the only who said that there was a wide spectrum of passing. My point is that even the worst passing guards will make adequate passes. This is the NBA we're talking about.

2. And when you have a poor coach, guess what happens? That's right. A new coach comes along.

3. You said to let you know when Curry wins something without Klay, Draymond, and Iggy. So yes, it's going to be hard for Curry to win a FMVP without them since they're on the same team.

4. The 2015 Warriors are the best comparison to next year's Warriors since neither had Durant. I don't care about the players you liked. I asked which players could replace Curry on the 2015 Warriors. You've listed stars, but none of them play much off-ball. Since they need the ball in their hands, they'd offensively neuter Draymond Green's passing. It would change the dynamic entirely, so it's hard to make an argument that they'd win a title.

5. This is perhaps your stupidest argument yet. Loyalty. Curry has spent his entire career with the Warriors, and you're going to ding him for his loyalty? Pathetic. And you don't remember any of Curry's clutch shots? He had a game-tying 3 pointer against the Pelicans a few years back in the playoffs. And he hit a game-tying layup against the Cavs in the finals. In any case, you can find his clutch highlights on youtube.

6. There you go underrating his defense again.

 

1. The fact that you can't understand what I'm saying is really frustrating. Steph OR Klay's ability to shoot on a catch, and get open without the ball, is entirely dependent upon OTHER PLAYERS' abilities to pass to the SG/PG for that shot. AKA, they're not PGs or SGs. "They can pass" is not a very good qualifier, there's a lot of players who don't play like this, who don't fit well on a SAS roster, or GSW. In this case, Dray being anything above an average passer for his position, and the ability for him to bring the ball up the court is an asset that's very valuable to GSW because it's the enabler for Steph and Klay's spot-up shots and off-ball movement.

2. Uh, no, great coaches are not easy to find. Coaching and the management obviously have very close ties so severing it is an extremely difficult choice to make. A lot of times, both the roster and the coach gets dismantled at the same time.

3. Yup, and you said Curry is the only irreplaceable player on the team.

4. Kyrie has, however, played with Lebron, who is just as good a passer if not better, and also a primary ball handler. I have no idea why you think Kyrie can't play w/ Dray, it doesn't neuter him, it didn't neuter Lebron.

5. At least I'm honest about where I'm at with Steph. At least I see him, his ego on the court, and see just how blinded he is by his own success. I don't care if you call it pathetic, it's no less pathetic than your fandom hyping him up saying his defense is good.

6. His defense sucks. The pieces around him props his stats up. It's a big hole in his game. If you deny this, your fandom has blinded you. I'm quite sure your day of reckoning on this is coming soon -- well, to be honest, his stats this season coming back from injury is enough proof for me. But if next year's pieces is the reason why Steph's defensive ability is good LOL then stick to it and see where it goes. I have no problem eating crow if Steph steps up to the plate defensively. DRPM for 2018-2019 does not look good for Steph, and it should be obvious you need to just accept it.

 

1. I understand your point. But at the NBA level, every guard (and most SFs) are capable of making the pass on time and on target. Draymond Green's passing and ball-handling may be unique for a PF, but its common for guards and SFs. Draymond Green's offensive contributions are not difficult to replace.

2. It doesn't take a great coach to recognize if his players are elite at catching and shooting. Even an average coach is capable of recognizing that.

3. Correct. Curry is the only irreplaceable player on the team. Remember, a lot of Curry's contributions don't show up in the box scores. For instance, the way he distorts defenses. His presence creates an opening for teammates, and if that teammate receives a pass and scores, Curry's contribution isn't reflected int he box score.

4. The way Irving plays off-ball is how most players play off-ball. They orbit around the ball-handler and react to what he does. That's not how Curry/Thompson play off-ball. Curry/Thompson off-ball movement dictates a lot of the Warriors offense. Irving doesn't move nearly as much as Curry off-ball, and he's not nearly the catch/shooter that Curry is.

Without the ball, Draymond Green is an offensive liability. Irving prefers to play iso-ball. You can't see why that would neuter Draymond Green? And don't compare Green to Lebron....

5. I agree. Curry has an ego. But it's pathetic for you to question his loyalty when he's spent his entire career with the Warriors.

6. I think there are plenty of stats that indicate Curry's defense is average at worst. But why do you say it sucks? Because he looks bad when he's forced to guard Lebron or Harden? Lots of defenders look bad in those circumstances.

 

An assisting/passing forward is easily replaceable? I just talked endlessly about how coaching, system/style, and player talents, all have to line up for any of this to even work....
https://stats.nba.com/players/passi...19&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=F
https://stats.nba.com/players/passi...19&SeasonType=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=F
https://stats.nba.com/players/passi...e=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=F&CF=MIN*G*20
https://stats.nba.com/players/passi...e=Regular Season&PlayerPosition=F&CF=MIN*G*20

Give GSW front office a call and ask them to trade Dray for Luka Doncic, Blake Griffin, or Joel Embiid, straight-up and see if they take it.

About Steph's defense: Go look and see where your guy ranks on his own team in DBPM:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2019.html#advanced::24
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2019.html#playoffs_advanced::24

Steph makes up for his defense entirely by having a very strong defensive team (which is entirely up to the roster), and being the most potent offensive player on the roster. At the end of the day, he's basically unstoppable offensively, and the team just has to make sure the defense is ranked #1 in the league every year. Which, according to you, is like nothing. Nothing the organization, coaching, management has anything to do with, apparently, nor the stars aligning to make the player acquisitions possible.

 

He is an idiot for saying that, Curry is one of the most skilled players EVER. HE IS THE SYSTEM, not part of it. You can't just put anybody in his plays and expect same results. Matter of fact nobody can replicate it just like nobody can replicate James Harden iso system

 

i argue that ayesha curry is a superstar

 

People who say dumb **** like this about Curry are exactly the type of people who say "Harden wouldn't be a star if the refs didn't rig the games by giving him 20 free throws".

Be better, people. Recognize talent when you see it, no matter how much you hate it as a Rocket fan.

 

Yes, an assisting/passing forward of Draymond Green's caliber is easily replaceable. It's his defense that made him special. Out of curiosity, do you think Green can make any passes that Joe Ingles can't?

Seriously? We've already established that Curry is the weakest defensive player in the starting lineup. That's why other teams try to force him to guard their stars. How does Curry rank compared to the rest of the league?

Wrong. If you have the best offense in the league, you don't need to have the best defense in the league to win a title. Remember, the goal is to win a title....not win a title overwhelmingly.

But at least you finally concede that his offensive game is complete.

 

I'm giving up on you. You didn't even read any of the stats, not going to even try convincing your ignorant mind going forward.

Also, da ****? Finally concede? You mean Steph has the same off-ball catch & shoot as Klay? There are multiple unstoppable offensive players in the league, get off your ****ing high horse.

 

Depending on what her food tastes like.

 

I already acknowledged that he's the worst defensive player among the GSW starters. Why do I need to look at stats that support an assertion we both agreed on? What a weird request.

How does he fare compared to the rest of the league for his position?

Who else is an unstoppable offensive player off-ball?

I don't know the shooting percentages for Curry/Thompson on catch & shoots, but before you say that Thompson is better, you should consider the fact that Curry is better at getting open than Thompson.

Really though. Can Draymond Green make passes that Joe Ingles can't?

 

That's revisionist history. No one watching the series in real time thought he should have been FMVP. The series changed once Iggy was inserted into the starting lineup.

Curry was clearly a media favorite in 2015, having won MVP fairly easily over Harden who had better numbers and did more with less. Watching the series, Iggy had more of an impact. But honestly, LBJ deserved FMVP that year.

 

But FMVP should go to a member of the winning team.

For the series, Curry averaged about 10ppg more than the 2nd leading scorer (Iguodala). In NBA history, has there ever been a guy who led his team in scoring by that much and DIDN'T win FMVP?

Not only that, he didn't receive a single FMVP vote. So no, I disagree that he was a media favorite back then. He won MVP b/c the Warriors won 67 games, and he was clearly the best player on the team.

 

Usually, but LBJ was so far and away the best player in the series, AND he was playing without his 2nd and 3rd best players most of the series, AND somehow made it a competitive 6 games. In some rare cases, FMVP can go to a guy on the losing team, it has before.

It's not just about stats, it's about impact on the games. Iggy did a great job on LBJ later in the series which isn't captured in the stats. I can't believe you don't think the media liked Steph back in 2015, starting from that year he was viewed very favorably.

Don't know the answer to your PPG question, but I don't think it's very relevant, to be honest.

 

Was it really competitive if the Warriors' wins were by about 10 points each time?

Just goes to show you that Curry wasn't a media favorite back then. If he were, he would've been FMVP since there was a compelling reason to vote for him. Instead, he got 0 FMVP votes.

Like with the Lakers in 2009 against Orlando. He averaged 32.4 ppg (52.5% TS), 5.6 rebounds, and 7.4 assists per game. Gasol averaged 18.6 ppg (64.7% TS), 9.2 rebounds, and 2.2 assists per game. And he had to guard Dwight Howard.

But since Kobe was a media favorite, he won FMVP.

 

I think the greater point should have been this.

Curry is extremely lucky to have landed in just about the most ideal scenario he ever could have dreamt of.

Most players, including Harden, have not been afforded that luxury and never will be. Most great players in NBA history were never afforded that luxury.

So when you see people ranking the all time greats and you see Curry in the teens it doesn’t feel right.

You can’t deny he is an absolutely fantastic player. But many have used the results of his unprecedented friendly situation to elevate him above others who had to play with garbage comparatively.

I believe if you look at it from this angle....Take Curry Take Harden. Randomly assign them to teams of varying qualities over countless simulations and it’s likely that more often than not Harden comes out looking like the better player. Just so happens the one reality we have, Curry hit the team quality jackpot.

I also do believe that of all the great players, Curry’s specific skill set lends itself to fit in smoothly with just about any other group of great players. Which again is an outstanding attribute to have IF you are lucky enough to find yourself in the very rare situation of having multiple great teammates.

 

I would slightly disagree.

While Harden hasn't landed amongst the ballclubs with the most resources, such as the LA teams, NY teams, great FOs like Boston, GSW, Spurs or Bucks.

A team with Durant, WB and Ibaka would be the next best scenario.

A team like Houston who built their entire system around him is the next thing personally for him.

True, Steph got onto a great team and a great Front Office.

 

lol sounds like you agree 100%.

Harden didn’t get a team of Durant, WB and Ibaka. He unlike Curry had a stupid front office who squandered their opportunity of having an unreal dynastic team.

And let’s not just make this about Harden. Many great players have had the same career fate.

Curry is great, but it’s not wrong to point out he is one of the most fortunate players in NBA history.

 

i disagree, this guy can catch fire with the quickness and just go bonkers. When you have guard him from the half court line thats a hella of a player. His release so so damn quick with far range making him so difficult to guard. He moves so quickly and well without the ball. This guy is clutch and shoot lights out. Im sorry to say but i rather have him than harden