Do you Agree? - Bomani Jones implies Steph Curry no superstar, 'best system player' ever

I don't have a definition for superstars and I don't use that descriptor because it's more about fans than ability.

I am using the criteria that Bomani used and the ability to carry a team to contender status.

 

Thanks.

 

I gave you percentages from Curry's 2019 season. You're the one who countered by giving me his totals for the 2020 season.

You can keep defending it all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that statistically, Curry is a better finisher.

Maybe Curry would attack the rim more if he were an inferior 3pt shooter? If you shoot 44% from the 3pt line and 65% at the rim, it's better to attempt a 3 pointer.

 

Because it's untrue. In the 2018 finals, Draymond Green shot 21% from the 3pt line. In 2017, he shot 28%. In 2015, he shot 26%.

Just because the Warriors won titles with Green doesn't mean he made enough 3's to keep defenses honest.

And no. Draymond Green doesn't shoot 3's well enough to fit with Harden. He shoots less than 30%. Defenses would dare him to shoot every time, and eventually, he would refuse and force the offense to reset.

You should quit arguing this. It's ridiculous.

Sure, while shooting 46% from the field and 33% from the 3pt line. He's fine getting inefficient buckets on his own.

The Cavs were fine leaving Klay. He shot 30% from the 3pt line for the series. They weren't fine leaving Curry.

Which he didn't do. The Warrors won titles in spite of Green's 3pt shooting, not because of it.

Why? Curry is a 2 time MVP and the greatest shooter of all time. If that doesn't fit your definition of "superstar", then your definition is broken.

So the key was giving Bogut less minutes, not giving Iguodala more. Gotcha.

It was a terrible decision. That and Westbrook's MVP were ridiculous.

Swinging the series shouldn't be enough to win FMVP.

Curry played great during the finals. He was more important to the Warriors' title than Iguodala. The fact that Iguodala outperformed expectations shouldn't detract from Curry's greater contribution.

Scoring has always been more important than defense. That's why elite scorers get max contracts and guys like Tony Allen don't.

And it's not a great comparison because Leonard almost led the team in scoring. There was a 0.2ppg difference between he and Parker. What was the difference between Iggy and Curry?

Harden is not good at catching and shooting. He needs to start dribbling to establish a rhythm. That's why defenses ignore him when he doesn't have the ball and hangs out 30 feet from the basket. Even if he gets the ball, the defense will have time to recover.

The Warriors won in spite of his shooting. Not because of it. A sub-30% 3pt shooter shouldn't be good enough for you. It shouldn't be good enough for anyone.

Chris Paul isn't a ball-handler and shot creator? Why are you even arguing this? It's common knowledge that when Harden doesn't have the ball to start the play, he tends to be uninvolved.

 

That's too much luck you're depending on. I don't care who it is, there aren't many who come in fresh from the draft and make immediate impact on a contending team.

The only players I remember at the moment are Magic Johnson, maybe Larry Bird? and Tim Duncan. Many consider these players to be top-10 players to ever play basketball.

Also, no KD, no Iggy. LAL would be a better team than GSW, I don't care who you draft.

 

Again, this is up to the coach and the roster to take advantage, not the player. If you don't have teammates who can pass well, or if your coaching and offensive plays don't make use of it, this is NOT an advantage.

The very fact that you threw Klay in there is clearly an indication you confuse how huge these surrounding pieces are in contributing to the championship runs. You do know that Klay and Steph are two different people, right?

All this and we're not even talking about how everyone else has to make up for Steph's lack of defensive ability.

Be a fan or whatever, call him a superstar, top-10 player. But don't tell me you think he's the best player in the league, or is even in the conversation. He is NOT.

 

So now it's just semantic. You can be "great" but not a superstar. Fine. So there are only about one or two guys qualified every decade or so, right?

And according to you, the Warriors team that broke the regular season record had NO superstar. Pretty great achievement then. Even a team with MJ couldn't do that.

 

This is the NBA. The best of the best. If a guard (or SF) can't pass well, he won't be in the league.

And if a coach doesn't utilize a useful skillset, the skillset is still an advantage. It'll be up to the next coach to utilize it properly. Again, this is the NBA. At this level, talent/ability is quickly recognized and exploited.

You do realize that you brought up Klay first, right?

It's easy to make up for a guard's perimeter defensive shortcomings. Look at the Rockets. At one point, we had Beverley, Ariza, Josh Smith, and Dwight Howards.

Also, Curry's defense is underrated. He's definitely the weakest link among the Warriors' starting 5, but he's not a below-average defender.

 

Won't GSW also have Wiggins?

 

1. I'm not going to have the patience to deal w/ you saying "this is the NBA". There's a wide spectrum of talent for every category, even passing, even if it's the best league in the world. And now you're agreeing with me the coaching is responsible to take advantage of that passing ability -- it should be obvious that a lot more credit for GSW's success should go to front office and the coaching. Not only that, the surrounding roster for Steph is simply a more capable roster than most. Take it however you want, defense, passing, shooting, etc. And Steph isn't out there doing literally everything on the court -- the team is.
2. I brought up Klay, you're the one who's claiming Dray's passing isn't getting it done alone, it's Klay + Steph. You could've omitted Klay's name there, you didn't because you know it's true that Klay is a better off-ball catch & shoot player than Steph.
3. Steph's defense is underrated!??!!?!? Not even gonna do this with you.

 

SMH yes, he's there, you let me know if he's gonna pick up that slack to win a chip.

 

Every guard in the NBA is capable of passing.

Disagree. The players are the ones on the court.

And Curry was a great shooter before Klay/Draymond/KD arrived.

The team may be doing everything, but Curry is the only irreplaceable part of the team.

Both Thompson and Curry are elite off-ball players. If I didn't include Thompson, it seem like I was giving Curry full credit for creating looks for teammates, and that's not the case. And I disagree that Klay is a better off-ball catch & shoot player than Curry. I think they're about even.

It's absolutely underrated on Clutchfans. Most people here act as if he's one of the worst defenders in the league, and that's simply not the case.

 

Sure, why not? Do you think he's better than Harrison Barnes was in 2015?

 

I just told you you're missing KD and Iggy.

#1 draft pick + Wiggins isn't even going to come close to that. I'm quite sure of myself there.

 

Yeah, but the 2015 Warriors won a title with Curry, Thompson, Green, Barnes, Iggy, and Livingston.

Next year's roster will have Curry, Thompson, Green, Wiggins, and some young talent in Paschall and Lee.

 

1. I thought I was being quite clear that there's a dynamic spectrum of passing ability for every player, I think this is a very agreeable point to make.
2. Players are on the court -- coaching and front office can take the player off the court and trade/waive em if they want.
3. Has Steph won a Finals MVP yet? Let me know when he wins something without Klay + Dray + Iggy.
4. Curry being irreplaceable on GSW is your opinion. I don't share it.
5. Steph and Klay are both elite, Klay is clearly the better off-ball catch & shoot player on that roster. Steph only does 1 thing better than Klay on that, he moves without the ball better. That's it. For my money, I'd rather have Klay than Steph. I've already said I'd rather have Dame than Steph.
6. On a team that, when winning, ranks top 1 in defensive rating, there's no way to evaluate his on-ball defense properly. Defensive WS paints a nice picture for Steph, DRPM does not. You can claim that he's not the worst, but he's clearly not a good defender. I honestly don't care worst or not good, it's just a huge deficiency for him as a player.

 

Yeah they won 1 ring w/ Iggy, Curry, Klay, Dray, and an asshat called Andrew Bogut.

They won 2 rings (as in, more) with KD on that roster, after coercing KD from losing to Lebron in the Finals on a 73-win season. It STILL had Iggy on the roster.

 

1. It's not a good point. Every guard (and sf) at the NBA level is capable of making passes.
2. So? That doesn't change the fact that the players are the ones on the court winning championships.
3. Kind of hard to do since Klay and Green have been on GSW their entire careers. What a strange rebuttal.
4. Can you name a few players who could replace Curry on the 2015 Warriors?
5. Curry is clearly better than both Klay and Lillard. There's literally nothing Lillard can do that Curry cant, and Curry is also an elite off-ball player.
6. The impact of PG defense is overrated since it can be covered up by team defense.

 

Yes, I'm comparing next year's potential roster with the 2015 roster.

 

That's 5 years ago. The very next year, they didn't win the chip after a 73-win season. Then they got KD and won 2 more chips, with the final ring being 2 seasons ago.

My point is more relevant, it has more substance because they won more with KD than without, and these teams have gotten a lot better the past 5 years.