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Do the Rockets have the Triple Crown? MVP, COTY, and EOTY....

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Plowman, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    That will never happen - the Rockets have been a good story this year but they haven't been THAT dominant...and most voters won't vote for 3 people from the same team just on general principle. If it didn't happen last year with the Warriors winning 73 games(Iggy just missed 6th man award) and everyone kissing their crotch, it won't happen this year with the Rockets winning in the mid 50s games - a team generally disliked by the larger media.
     
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  2. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Wheel C
     
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  3. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Kevin Pelton gave them one: Coach of the Year.

    Kevin Pelton's picks for awards

    Most Valuable Player
    1. Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder
    2. Kawhi Leonard, San Antonio Spurs
    3. LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
    4. James Harden, Houston Rockets
    5. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors

    I discussed the top four spots for MVP in my story earlier this week looking at what advanced metrics tell us about the MVP race. For the fifth spot, I'm going with Curry. Other players have had better seasons in terms of box-score stats, but Curry remains the driving force on the NBA's best team, which is why he's second in ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM) wins.

    All-NBA first team
    Guard: James Harden, Houston Rockets
    Guard: Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City Thunder
    Forward: LeBron James, Cleveland Cavaliers
    Forward: Kawhi Leonard, San Antonio Spurs
    Center: Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz

    Four of the five spots on the All-NBA first team are obvious. Center is far more interesting.

    Because he has played more minutes at center, and more effectively there, I'm considering Anthony Davis a center for the purposes of my ballot. However, I still think Gobert has done more to help his team win. He's either the best or second-best defensive player in the league and has become a high-percentage lob threat in the DeAndre Jordan mold on offense. Gobert has arguably been a top-10 player in the league this season, and the best of a resurgent group of 5s.

    All-NBA second team
    Guard: Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors
    Guard: Isaiah Thomas, Boston Celtics
    Forward: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks
    Forward: Jimmy Butler, Chicago Bulls
    Center: Anthony Davis, New Orleans Pelicans

    Thomas truly is having one of the better offensive seasons in NBA history. He's on track to rank in the top 10 in adjusted true shooting percentage, my metric that adjusts true shooting percentage for a player's usage rate by adding .050 for each point of usage above league average (20 percent), since 1977-78 (the first year usage can be calculated).

    While Thomas' defense is a shortcoming, he's not as bad defensively as he looks in RPM because of opponent 3-point luck. As a result, I give him a narrow edge over John Wall for the second guard spot on the second team.

    All-NBA third team
    Guard: Chris Paul, LA Clippers
    Guard: John Wall, Washington Wizards
    Forward: Kevin Durant, Golden State Warriors
    Forward: Draymond Green, Golden State Warriors
    Center: DeAndre Jordan, L.A. Clippers

    Paul and Durant have both missed extended periods due to injury, but were so good when healthy that they merit All-NBA anyway. That means no room at forward for Paul George or Gordon Hayward, even with Davis qualifying as a center, and I don't think it's honestly all that close. Durant still has contributed 3.2 more wins above replacement player (WARP) than Hayward and 4.7 more than George.

    The third center spot is an interesting one. Karl-Anthony Towns and DeMarcus Cousins have the best box-score stats, but neither rates particularly well in terms of their impact on team performance. Nikola Jokic rates well in both categories but has played less than 2,000 minutes because he spent most of the first month and a half coming off the bench. Marc Gasol, who's sure to get plenty of votes, hasn't rated as well in either team impact or box-score stats. So I'm going with Jordan, a consistent presence for the Clippers at both ends of the court.

    Defensive Player of the Year
    1. Draymond Green, Golden State Warriors
    2. Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
    3. Dwight Howard, Atlanta Hawks

    For my explanation of Green over Gobert, as well as my All-Defensive Teams, see my analysis highlighting defense earlier this week.

    Sixth Man Award
    1. Andre Iguodala, Golden State Warriors
    2. Eric Gordon, Houston Rockets
    3. Lou Williams, Houston Rockets

    This year's Sixth Man crop is deeper than normal, I'd say. In most years, Greg Monroe would have merited a spot on the ballot, and maybe James Johnson too. While this award is Gordon's to win, RPM favors Iguodala, and dramatically so. His plus-3.3 RPM is far and away the best of any reserve, and Iguodala should crack 2,000 minutes, so his 7.8 RPM wins are tops too.

    Gordon's high-volume 3-point shooting has been a major factor in the Rockets more than holding their own with James Harden on the bench, though it's worth noting he's largely a nonfactor on defense. After joining Houston at the deadline, Williams is no longer technically a sixth man, but he has been one of the league's better offensive players off the bench.

    Rookie of the Year
    1. Malcolm Brogdon, Milwaukee Bucks
    2. Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers
    3. Willy Hernangomez, New York Knicks

    I was comfortable picking Embiid as Rookie of the Year despite playing just 31 games if he was the rookie who provided the most value. At the time he was hurt, that seemed likely, but Brogdon has provided quality minutes as the Bucks have solidified their playoff spot in the second half of the season. He has doubled Embiid in RPM wins, which makes him my choice.

    Nearly all ballots will surely have Embiid's teammate Dario Saric in the top three but even during his strong second half Saric has been more of a volume scorer than an efficient one. (I broke down the difference in Saric's play before and after the All-Star break earlier this week.) Hernangomez has been a high-percentage finisher and excellent rebounder for the Knicks, and is second in WARP among rookies behind Embiid.

    All-Rookie first team
    Chosen without regard to position.

    Malcolm Brogdon, Milwaukee Bucks
    Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers
    Willy Hernangomez, New York Knicks
    Dario Saric, Philadelphia 76ers
    Rodney McGruder, Miami Heat

    Surely one of the most improbable All-Rookie candidates in recent memory, McGruder went undrafted in 2013 and spent one season overseas and two in the D-League. After making the Heat out of training camp, McGruder has started all but one game he has played since Thanksgiving. Mostly a bystander on offense, McGruder has been a key contributor to a Miami defense that ranks fifth in defensive rating.

    All-Rookie second team
    Jaylen Brown, Boston Celtics
    Marquese Chriss, Phoenix Suns
    Yogi Ferrell, Dallas Mavericks
    Caris LeVert, Brooklyn Nets
    Jamal Murray, Denver Nuggets

    Honest question: Do we need an All-Rookie second team at this point? It's a stretch to find 10 rookies who really helped their teams this season.

    Most Improved Player
    1. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks
    2. Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
    3. Bradley Beal, Washington Wizards

    There are dozens of legitimate contenders for this award, but Antetokounmpo is a pretty clear choice as the winner.

    Coach of the Year
    1. Mike D'Antoni, Houston Rockets
    2. Gregg Popovich, San Antonio Spurs
    3. Erik Spoelstra, Miami Heat

    Popovich could easily win this award every year, and he managed the retirement of Tim Duncan so seamlessly -- with the Spurs remaining the league's best defensive team -- that it's easy to overlook.

    Still, I do think D'Antoni and his coaching staff deserve the award as recognition for how his system has proven a perfect fit for Houston's offensive talent, which wasn't obvious before the season, when the Vegas over/under had the Rockets at 41.5 wins. Beyond that, the Rockets have defended at a league-average rate, which is impressive given that three of the team's top six players in minutes played are defensively challenged, to put it politely. Spoelstra kept the Heat focused despite a dreadful start and has cobbled together a top-tier defense.

    As always, several other coaches have cases worth mentioning as well. Scott Brooks managed to steer the Wizards through a slow start and guide them to their first division championship in 38 years. Steve Kerr's patience was the right approach to keep a Warriors team facing high expectations from combusting. Quin Snyder oversaw dramatic improvement despite near-constant injuries that have allowed him to start his preferred five just 13 times all season. Brad Stevens is as good as anyone late in close games. And I'm surprised Dwane Casey hasn't gotten more credit for keeping the Toronto Raptors afloat with elite defense after the loss of Kyle Lowry to injury.

    Executive of the Year
    Bob Myers, Golden State Warriors

    Look, I get that the lure of playing for the Warriors helped them sign big men Zaza Pachulia and David West as free agents at bargain prices, and that Myers wouldn't win this award had Kevin Durant chosen to play for another team.

    If Daryl Morey wins for hiring D'Antoni, signing Gordon and Ryan Anderson and trading for Williams midseason, it would certainly be well-deserved. But ultimately, nobody did more over the last 12 months to help themselves this season and in the future than Golden State did. Myers and the Warriors front office put the team in position to get lucky with Durant and take full advantage when they did.​
     
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  4. count_dough-ku

    count_dough-ku Contributing Member

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    Some of those choices are insulting. Harden is his 4th choice for MVP? I guess stats and wins don't matter to him. And Bob Myers for Executive of the Year? For what? Durant chose the Warriors. And he didn't make that decision because of anything Myers did last summer. He did it because he wanted to join a 73-win team.
     
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  5. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    He ran the advanced stats and apparently those don't favor Harden either. :rolleyes:

    http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php...n-in-mvp-voting.279618/page-127#post-11015601

    Like Harden did lead in win shares but doesn't matter.

    KP: "Win shares also don't factor in the key concept of replacement level, so they tend to reward minutes played, where Harden leads the league, more than productivity."
    ______________________
    RPM is relatively low on Harden's candidacy because the Rockets haven't declined much with him on the bench; they still outscore opponents by 4.5 points per 100 possessions when Harden rests. In particular, Houston defends better without Harden, so his minus-1.7 defensive rating in RPM is the lowest among the MVP candidates by a wide margi
    ______________________
    Meanwhile, Harden's defensive disadvantage relative to James drops him to third with Westbrook comfortably leading the other contenders in terms of wins above replacement.

    To me, the most valuable player is the one who adds the most wins to his team's bottom line, and that's why after consulting the advanced stats Westbrook would be my MVP.

    My top four:

    1. Russell Westbrook
    2. LeBron James
    3. James Harden
    4. Kawhi Leonard

    ______________________

    Sounds like another case of "James has too much help" & defensive metrics hurt him.

    We now care that James has "too much help". Not when LeBron had Wade & Bosh or Irving & Love or Durant had Westbrook or when Curry had Thompson & Green & great bench or Kawhi has LaMarcus & a great bench.

    Ariza, Beverley, Gordon & Anderson is too much though!

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
    #45 J.R., Apr 7, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  6. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    I asked Pelton on twitter about his MVP rankings in the "all encompassing article" and the MVP rankings in his "stats MVP article." Because they are DIFFERENT! He told me he started the all encompassing article first and then did the MVP Stats article and didn't adjust the MVP rankings back in his all encompassing article. Bottom line is Pelton's final rank was RW, LJ, JH, KL.
     
  7. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Having Harden behind Lebron, who has less points, assists, and wins, with better teammates, and has voluntarily rested games, is genuinely insulting.
     
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  8. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    I guess the STATS that Pelton used as the basis for his rankings told him that. It would be great if the "stats geeks" on clutchfans could poke some holes in Pelton's stats deep dive.
     
  9. Crashlanded19

    Crashlanded19 Member

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    The media trying their hardest to prevent this ****. Lol six man and coach of the year definitely going to the rockets. Their trying hard to sway mvp voters so wb can catch up with harden. Its worked so far. But i still think harden will be 1st or 2nd on most ballots. Westbrook will be 4th or 5th on some ballots which will hurt his chances. James is the mvp. Lou or gordon is six man of the year.

    Daryl deserves exec of the year as well. I'm trying not to be a homer but i don't see anyone else worthy of it, maybe danny ainge for the celtics. I really don't know
     
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  10. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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  11. split41

    split41 Member

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    This is just ****ing insulting and dumb, how can westbrook be 1st, while Harden is 4th? Everyone argument made for Westbrook can be made for Harden (except the "ooooo triple double"). LeBron above James seriously? Harden has a better team record, better stats, no-all stars or all-nba players on the roster, completely defied expectations, has broken multiple records this season, like what the ****?

    James will never win MVP, the media just dislikes him too much.

    This guy just really wants to push Westbrook as MVP, so obviously devalues Harden as a way to stack the odds in Westbrook's favour. An absolute joke!
     
    #51 split41, Apr 7, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
    J.R. likes this.
  12. split41

    split41 Member

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    Daryl has been awesome, but Bob Myers with a 73 win team adding KD is ****ing nuts, and it's easy to see him get the nod over maury. Although my homer glasses say Maury is god
     
  13. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    Kevin Pelton is just another ****boi in the media/at the "WWL".

    Remember that time last year when he said (article) Harden is the problem & should be traded and gave us these 4 "great" trade proposals?

    "...the star-hungry Boston Celtics could offer All-Star Isaiah Thomas to replace his shot creation, cap relief with David Lee's expiring contract and perhaps one of the coming picks they're due from the Brooklyn Nets to give the Rockets a chance at another star.

    If Houston believes D'Angelo Russell has superstar potential, the Lakers would have to consider giving him up to get Harden, an L.A. native.

    And there are at least two lottery teams who seem hungry to get better now. The Denver Nuggets could build a package around Danilo Gallinari, Gary Harris and draft picks. Likewise, the Orlando Magic could offer Victor Oladipo, Aaron Gordon and picks."
    Gotta be hard for some of these media members clowned on him last year, wrote him off, blamed him for McHale & Howard's exits, didn't vote him All-NBA ... to just a year later having to [potentially] vote for him for MVP. Gotta be hard.
     
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  14. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Their memories are (as) short (as their...).
     
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  15. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    I hope kevin Pelton has no votes

    Most kevin's these days seem to be losers - kevin mcfail, kevin Durant, kevin mcdonalds, kevin pelton
     
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  16. Louka

    Louka Contributing Member

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    When do they actually vote?
     
  17. pass_to_Hakeem

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    nah Westbrook is winning MVP!! I'll take a deep playoff run tho. If they can find a "5" & "4" next year that can defend rebound, then maybe a championship next year
     
  18. threepointshot3

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    It is time to admit russ has wrapped up the MVP and Coach of the year I think is between MDA or Snyder. Miami and Boston coaches will be there abouts but in the end MDA will get it. Defensive player is without a shadow of a doubt KL from the Spurs with Rudy Gobert second and Bevrhird.
     
  19. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    I dont think Pelton has a vote. But his stats heavy article could INFLUENCE the hot take voters that do have a vote.
     
  20. OTMax

    OTMax Member

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    Celtics will win COY/ EOY and you gotta give credit to Brooks in DC imo. You can make a case for Morey since he brought in great players and at the same time knowing he wanted to go the winning route, but I don't think MDA deserves to win anything. He's really been incompetent with this resting and he didn't do anything about Harden's problems nor make him better. Sixth man we got lucky cause Gordon is not playing like it, neither is Lou..MVP is lost so we probably get 6th man but that means little when you get little out of him in the play-offs.
     
    #60 OTMax, Apr 10, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017

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