Have you seen what Dirk's number are compared to KG's in the playoffs (head to head)? Dirk dominated KG in last year's playoffs. He also has comparible stats to Duncan's in the playoffs. You threw out their stats in the matchup two years ago but those stats don't show that (even though the Mavs lost the series) Dirk put over 40 points and 20 rebounds against Duncan, and that was after getting his two front teeth knocked out. All of this talk about playoff matchups, and playoffs from two years ago is all moot though. The MVP Award for this year isn't based on what happens in the playoffs, and especially from the playoffs from two years ago. The MVP Award is based on what's happening right now, this year, during the regular season. And based on that Dirk is outplaying Duncan, KG, Kobe, and T-Mac. Webber shouldn't even be lumped in this year's group of candidates. Bobby Jackson is more deserving of the award than Webber is at this point. Kidd is the only one I could honestly say that is playing better than Dirk is this year.
Nothing against Dirk. But KG never never has had anywhere as good of players around him as Dirk has now. Im just saying that KG would probably have better numbers if he didnt have to babysit crappy players all the time.
The MVP isn't based on what a player could probably do though. It's based on what he Is doing, and right now Dirk Is doing more than KG.
SJC, What? I have the agenda, and you are the German fan?? Don't see it. btw: Bob McAdoo was widely regarded as the 2nd best scorer of his era, behind Jabbar, and the best pure shooter to boot, and best pure shooting big man ever (until Bird). Why do you consider it an insult to say Nitwitz is a 7' version, which implies that I believe he is better than McAdoo. If you expect me to call him the next Bird, then you are the one with the agenda, not me...because Bird ran the team out of the gate. I'm not basing this on stats. Being elected to 1st Team Defense is not a stat. Also, Nellie was quoted after being dispatched 1-4 by the Kings that Nitwitz next learning curve is passing out of a double team. He said that he must learn to beat a double team better, because he'll have to in order to stop being defeated so ruthlessly in the playoffs, and so soundly beaten by Webber and Duncan. Dallas's success is based largely on opponents inability to double Nitwitz, which is a skill of his to his credit. But come playoff time, defenses change. How can you say he is a complete player and that Nellie is holding him back? The defense and passing is not there at Duncan, Webber, Shaq and Garnett's level....he is still learning that, but he is not there, yet. He is the best pure shooter in the league, and has excellent scoring ability from everyone, but that doesn't make him more than a better McAdoo, in my book. sorry if you think that is an agenda. I'm critical with Hall of Famers.
This is ridiculous. It's obvious SJC has this thing for Nowitzki. Nowitzki is a good player, but he simply isn't the MVP of the league. There are three more deserving candidates right now.
I would take Dirk over anyone right now. He would run away with the MVP if the season ended tonight, but guess what it doesn't. Go Stevie Franchise!!
Nobody would give the excuse he is too young to do it because he is simply not too young to understand. His stuff is on an official NBA website, then he has the audacity to come over here and call everyone morons/idiots. Defending him is futile, if you put your thoughts on a major website on the net, and they are controversial/completely unfactual no matter what age you are....you deserve to get negative feedback. Using age as a crutch is weak.
As was your statement. Apparently you are still unable to see it. It's like saying "If you were black, nobody would call you white". Stating the obvious in the stupidest way.
Honestly I think I would have a clear choice right now. Right now that player is Tim Duncan. For him to pull that buttload of crap around him to the 3rd best record in the west is amazing. TD has as good of numbers as anyone, and he has pushed his team as far as anyone. As far as the others...the nearest comp are... #2 Kidd-- if he keeps his shooting and points where they are (big ifs) and the Nets win the East (very probable, I expect them to at least) he would have a great case I admit. He does have a lot more to work with than TD and KG however--for now his only 3.5 game advantage over the Spurs would not be enough for me to weight his MVP status above TD. #3 KG-- similar position as TD as he also has crap around him but has two things working against him. A deserved reputation of not being quite the clutch go-to guy as TD, and that his team is behind the Spurs. If he can pull the T-Wolves to the third spot in the West he could have a good argument even if he probably loses out to Kidd due to a) Kidd having a pretty good case himself, and b) popular sentiment from the last 2 years. For now I really think it is a 3 dog race between the above, but I'll go through the next... #4 Webber-- over the last two years the Kings have functioned pretty well without him. That has to work against him. Fine numbers, just a little below TD/KG--but the latter two guys rebound better and play much better defense. The latter two are simply better overall players, you can't overlook that simply because Webber has better teammates and has a few more Ws. Now if the Spurs & T-pups end up in the middle of the pack in the West (say us, Phx and Portland are ahead of them), the Nets don't win the East, and the Kings catch the Mavs--he would have a really hard case to ignore. #5 Dirk--similar situation as Webber. You don't simply give the award to the best player on the best team, along with good team performance you factor in how great the individual is, and how much more his team accomplished because of him. Dirk's defensive impact is minimal and rebounding merely good (both less than Webber's, let alone in the class of TD/KG), and it is not like he is scoring at a 30+ clip, where his offensive advantages over his comp is so far way out there where you can ignore his ordinary defense/rebounding relative to the comp. He would need a total collapse from the other 4 guys above like the Webber scenario and have the Mavs secure the best record in the league or it will be perceivced as too soon for him. Barring such a multifaceted collapse maybe next year if the Mavs win it all and are perceived as owed an MVP. Guys with no chance AT ALL.... #6 McGrady--no real case for the MVP. If he is better than TD or KG how come his team, playing in the East, is only 500 yet he has more to work with? #7 Kobe--McGrady like numbers, but even worse team performance. #8 Shaq--may still be the best player, but he missed too many games and his team as too far to come. He won't win no matter what, but if his team gets to #3 in the West (not impossible) he has a case even if sentiment surely will carry Kidd or someone else this year.
that's a good breakdown. I honestly believe it is between Kidd, Webber and Dirk, though. Kidd is having the best year of his career, and everyone knows he is the smartest player in the league, player who most makes his teammate's better, etc...but the main thing is the league loves to give an MVP to all the tops of each era, to pass the honor around. For that reason, Duncan gets passed up until his team dominates again, which is a shame, because he's THE MAN!! Kidd has never, and may never again, have a better stat year, not to mention headed for over 60 wins and another Finals. The same argument works with Webber, as it did last year. Nowitzki almost *must* win if Dallas comes close to 70 wins (for the same reason given for Kidd/Webber). How many teams have ever won more than 67 games?
Desert Scar, one could always argue about in which order to rank the top 5, but overall I like your breakdown. My top three would be Kidd, Duncan, Dirk right now (in whichever order, the next games could be telling). Webber, Kobe, T-Mac, Shaq would clearly be second tier in my opinion.
HP and SJC, I guess your right I should move KG out of the top 4 on my list. I still think Dirk & Webber will finish behind TD as long as the Spurs secure the 3 spot in the west however. I just can't see Dirk winning. He has never lead his team deep in the playoffs or had other seasons where his team excelled to this degree (often the rewards have an element of pay back--Karl Malone easily winning over TD in 99 as an example). Couple this with Dirk's modest defensive/rebounding attributes, and him not seperating himself from the pack of PFs offensively (if he had like a 30PPG season)--I don't think even a 70 win team season would be enough for him. Webber I see as pretty doubtful too. The Kings are viewed as a great team, and rightly or wrongly, with multiple leaders (Bibby was their leader against the Lakers last year). I guess that leads us back to Kidd. If he keeps his play at this level and the Nets win the east that leads him to a good case in his own right for the MVP, couple that with sentiment, that should lead him to an MVP trophy. It is his to lose at this point though if I had my vote right now it is TD by a nod.
Alright, I will say it before someone else comes here, Webber obviously clearly outplayed Dirk tonight. Give the MVP to Kidd or Duncan. But I say this does not necessarily set a precedent for the playoffs, a lot can happen until then.
umm....Webber or Kidd Duncan won't get it because he already got it, and Nitwitz is "just a scorer" by comparison. t.r.i.p.l.e. d.o.u.b.l.e Dallas the best team my ass. Problem is SJC...is that Dallas sucks...!!! They are purely gimmick offense and defense.
Damn, if 31-6 means that you suck what does that say about the Rockets? If Dallas sucks then the Rockets must be a WNBA team because they are like 10 games back from Dallas. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they suck.
HP, isn't gimmick defense is a little generous, wouldn't they have to play some form of defense to deserve that title? Dirk Nitwitski is still one hell of a player and the Mavs are a heck of a team regardless of what happened last night.
