1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Did Milkhair Ruin James Harden?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by CometsWin, Jan 30, 2016.

  1. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    Because it doesn't fit their personal. The Spurs have 3 starters who don't really shoot 3s. Parker averages less than one 3 point attempt per game, Aldridge and Duncan haven't made a 3 pointer yet this season.

    On the other hand, the GSW, who are flirting with the best record in NBA history have taken 37 3 point attempts or more in 7 of their first 47 games... and won them all.

    12/28/15 42 attempts
    2/18/16. 40 attempts
    11/7/15. 39 attempts
    11/27/15 38 attempts
    11/12/15 38 attempts
    1/9/16 37 attempts
    11/6/15. 37 attempts
     
  2. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    Huh? Passing the ball late in the shot clock makes it easy to get an assist? How do you figure? You are correct that if you pass the ball and the player hits a shot then you get an assist but that is true for every pass made. Only problem is that late in the shot clock , shooting percentages go away down so your likelihood of getting and assist also goes way down.

    5 posts above yours I just showed that Harden actually holds the ball less than most any primary ballhandler in the league and that we don't shoot many 3s with the clock running down. Additionally, we are pretty much dead even with the Spurs in taking shots with the shot clock under 4 seconds.

    To answer you question above, 58.5% of our made shots are assisted. That ranks 14th in the NBA, so not only aren't we near the bottom of the league, we are actually in the top half of the league.

    The logic you presented makes no sense and is based on incorrect assumptions but I do applaud your determination to completely ignore facts to try and make your point.
     
  3. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    14,766
    Likes Received:
    7,409
    We don't have the personnel to shoot 30 3 point shots a game. This falls on Morey. You need to alter you're approach to the game if you don't have the correct players for a certain scheme. He doesn't do do that therefore his system is stupid for this team.
     
  4. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    23,691
    Likes Received:
    15,050
    Hallelujah!! Boom! Head shot. Buzzkill. K9 dogs ready
     
  5. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    We shoot three point shots at 35.2%.That is equivalent to a fg% of 52.8% on two point shots. So what shots are you going to take instead of 3s that we can hit at a rate better than 52.8%?

    The whole reason that most every team in the league is focusing on shooting 3s is because you get 33.3% more points on that shot. That means that you don't have to be nearly as efficient to produce the same number of points.

    I realize that many posters also repeat this idea that you have to have great 3 point shooters in order for it to make sense but that simply isn't true. Its basic math that the entire league is taking advantage of.
     
  6. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,027
    Likes Received:
    12,018
    Our offense(based off espns stats) in the 4 years we have had Harden:

    6th
    4th
    12th
    7th this year.

    How again is this not working?
     
  7. Kash

    Kash Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    2
    This guy is delusional. Take Harden off this team and we are the Sixers of the West. This team has continued to provide Harden with no true second scoring option, which is too much pressure. And no, Howard is not a true offensive scoring option. He's just good above the rim for easy dunks.
     
  8. conquistador#11

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    36,138
    Likes Received:
    22,658
    i think so by enabling him. Mchale always knew team ball and not sticky balls won game. He called every one out except harden, but we all knew who he was talking about. By the time he tried to address the problem it was too late. et tu, brurden?
     
  9. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    Yet another poster that is math challenged.

    Last night we shot 3s at 48.6%. Likewise we shot 2 point shots at 47.1%. So we produced 51points on 35 3 point attempts which is 1.46 points per attempt. We also produced 48 points on 51 2 point shot attempts which is 0.94 points per attempt.

    So you think that we should have taken fewer of the shots that produce 1.46 points per attempt and instead take shots that produce 0.94 points per attempt? How does that make any sense? You are literally complaining about the most efficient thing that we did last night.

    We shot nearly 50% on 3s last night, if anything we should have shot even more 3s. Why would you guys pick this to complain about?
     
  10. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    Another argument based on erroneous assumptions. Look above at the stats to see how much Harden holds the ball. Reality is quite different from your perception.
     
  11. conquistador#11

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    36,138
    Likes Received:
    22,658
    this is the false assumption. don't complicate thing. it's not about seconds holding on to the ball, or the time between the sweat dripping of his beard to his palms, which causes a loose ball. It's about harden buying into a system, and it won't happen until he decides to. and we're just going to have to wait until that happens if it ever does.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2000
    Messages:
    27,037
    Likes Received:
    21,273
    timing also needs to be considered here. we are shooting 35.2% on 3's overall. but we go into extended droughts every game where we can't put points on the board. during those periods, instead of jacking up off balance 3's, we should look for higher percentage shots closer to the basket in order to "stop the bleeding".

    if we're going to bring up last night's shooting percentage, then let's mention the previous game's as well, when we managed only 9 out of 39 and really stunk it up in the 2nd half, letting okc build up a big lead in the process. in the same game we shot 27-56 on 2's. clearly in this game, the coaching staff should have made an adjustment and run plays/sets for more 2pt attempts.
     
  13. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185
    Sorry to "complicate" things with facts. You were talking about the team ball winning rather than sticky ball. I simply referenced facts to demonstrate that your assumption was incorrect.

    What exactly are you disagreeing with? Do you believe that the NBA stats are wrong? Those stats clearly show that Harden holds the ball less per touch than most of the primary ball handlers in the league. Or do you think that most every ballhandler in tone league is sticky with the ball?

    You implied that Harden didn't play team ball and that he stopped the ball(i.e. sticky). How is he doing that without possessing the ball ? The stats I posted clearly contradict that idea. So if you disagree then the stats must be inaccurate.

    Ignoring stats that disprove your assertion isn't a compelling argument.
     
  14. alethios

    alethios Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    7,974
    Likes Received:
    6,015
    This talk of Harden's and the team's offense is ludicrous. The fact remains that our record is more of a reflection of our poor defense. We're 28 out of 30 in opponents' PPG (106.6) and Def Rtg (108.7). Put the blame where it's supposed to be.
     
  15. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 1999
    Messages:
    5,581
    Likes Received:
    4,185

    So your argument is that we shoot the ball badly some night so don't do it any more?

    Our philosophy is well documented, shots at the rim, threes and free throws. Sure if we are shooting terribly from the arc and we can gets shots at the rim instead then do it but that's easier said than done. If we are shooting that badly from the arc then how do you think opposing defenses will play us? Do you think they will pressure the 3 point line or do you think that they will pack in the paint? Did we pass up easy shots inside inorder to shoot 3s instead?

    Just look at the OKC game that you mentioned. You characterized us as jacking up off balance 3s but that is a huge exaggeration. In reality we took 17 3s where the closest defender was 4-6 feet away (classified by the NBA as "open"). We also took 14 3s where the closest defender was more than 6 feet away (NBA classifies as "wide open"). That's 31 open three point attempts but we shot it poorly. If we are getting a huge number of open 3s then how do you think that we are being defended? Do you believe that we could have gotten 30+ high percentage shots near the rim?
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    124,134
    Likes Received:
    33,020
    Coaching Harden with an enabling mentality is going to always fall short.

    McHale stunk, and was replaced by Junior who was in charge of defense, when the team is horrible at defense.

    Ultimately, this falls on Morey and Les for not valuing good coaching.

    DD
     
  17. DraftBoy10

    DraftBoy10 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,089
    Likes Received:
    42
    Exactly
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,131
    We surround Harden with four good defenders and the defense is still terrible
     
  19. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2000
    Messages:
    27,037
    Likes Received:
    21,273
    your argument was that we shot 3's great against WAS, who also just happens to have the absolute worst perimeter defense in the league.

    coaching and strategy is about nuance. otherwise we could just let the same computer spitting out the stats run the team from the sideline as well and preach only 3's because hey, that's our best point per shot right there.

    and nobody is forcing us to launch 39 3's in a game where we can't hit the ocean. the vast majority of nba teams attempt a drastically lower number of 3's than we do, and quite a few of them shoot an even worse percentage as well. how do they manage to get 2pt FG looks? teams certainly aren't forcing them into taking 3's. regarding the open looks against OKC, if you can't hit the ocean from longrange on a certain night, then it does make sense to look for something else. if the opponent is also packing the paint, then that means midrange shots are there for the taking.
     
  20. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    43,500
    Likes Received:
    29,549
    Maybe the defensive strategy just sucks then?
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now