Good thing you answered, because I was just reading that post and going "lolwut" in my mind. That is EXACTLY what Kobe did, and I remember clearly because I watched that game live. Whenever the ball came to him, he would just pass it off. He literally stood around and watched the entire 2nd half, with his team's playoff lives on the line. At least T-Mac had the excuse of being in pain and tired of running up and down and jumping. Kobe was in top form, dominating like he had done the *entire* series, and all of a sudden he decided "F it" and left his team out in the cold. And then he threw his teammates under the bus afterwards. I'm not one of those people who's going to hide their heads in the sand and pretend like Tracy didn't quit in Toronto, because he clearly did. It was a shameful thing. I'm not willing to condemn him like others because none of us have walked in his shoes, and nobody really knows just how much pain he was in during that time ... in fact, what we do know is that if things had been handled correctly he shouldn't have been out there at all. That said, he still quit, and he deserved a lot of the bad rap for what happened out there. What I do find hypocritical is people thinking that what Kobe did to the Lakers isn't worse. T-Mac has lost every playoff series he has been in, but at least he can say that he went down swinging every time.
Discussion aside, I just found it humourous that you used raping and Kobe in the same post. To me, they both quit. And I've said it all before as many others have here. IN the end, Kobe was able to prevail and win another ring. That's what the fanbase validates you by. Swap the two. Say Tracy won a couple rings with Shaq and LA. Kobe was in Houston with who we've had since the Tracy trade. Kobe was in court for rape...Ariza threw a punch and people want him shipped out.
WTF??? I am a huge basketball and NBA fan, how the hell do I not remember this news from 2007!??? I don't remember Kobe ever publicly demanding a trade, and that is pretty major news to miss out on.
People are not syaing to ship him out. They are comparing his actions to Tracy's. One quit on a play while playing with an injury, while the other threw a elbow because the ball was stolen. It is to show the contradiction by the Tracy haters.
he did quit in game 7 v. phoenix in 05-06. in the entire second half, he took 1 shot and just stood out at the 3pt line passing the ball. they were down by 20 mind you. he then proceeded to diss his young center bynum, wishing the team would have traded him for jkidd (oh how wrong he turned out to be), diss kupcake and buss. yes, kobe throwing the organization under the buss forced the team to do something (gasol trade), but make no mistake about it, the team WAS about to trade him. dallas wouldn't give up dirk. and chicago wouldn't give up all 3 of hinrich, deng, AND gordon. had those teams were willing to give up those pieces, kobe would NOT remain a laker. but again, winning cures all. now all is happy in laker-land.
tmac hasn't won, so he's an easy target. kobe has won before, so i guess he "earned" the right to quit if he felt like it. it's all about winning. it's sports, not a moral show.
I don't recall Kobe going T-Mac quitting from watching that game. He certainly wasn't aggressive as he could have been in the second half, but then he and Phil both indicated the second half gameplan was for him to be less selfish and try to get others involved more. He didn't do so as aggressively as you'd like, though. What's more, this was after the Lakers did blow a 3-1 lead, couldn't play defense worth squat, and come out in the first half and are down by 17 after one quarter and 15 at halftime in giving up 60 first half points. I can't blame Kobe that much for losing some energy after trying to get his teammates involved wasn't working, either. I don't blame him at all for only taking 3 shots in the half. I don't equate what Kobe did to what Tracy did last season.
Kobe Bryant is an All Star MVP Kobe Bryant is a Regular Season MVP Kobe Bryant is a Finals MVP Kobe Bryant is a 4 time NBA Champion Kobe Bryant = The Best Thing Since Jordan and Beyond Not "quitter" or whatever it is that you lames are posting in this thread...
But he did quit on them until they finally started stepping their game up. There is no doubt about that, the boy went to more then one media source and was openly talking about leaving LA. His complaints are the main reason, Phil Jackson was brought out of retirement and even why Fisher was brought back to the team. Kobe loves to win, no doubt, and he quit to prove a point but the fact remains he still quit or started to.
so you saw the guy who led the league in points at 35 ppg took ONE SHOT (or 3) in the 2nd half and stood around the 3pt line as simply "trying to get his teammates involved." are you serious? this is the same guy who said it didn't matter if they lost game 5 in that series b/c they would win game 6. kobe quit that game period. laker fans know that too. but since pau arrived, winning has cured everything. remember, the lakers WANTED to trade kobe after that series.
I guess we have different interpretations of what we saw. What I saw, was Kobe doing the exact thing we say T-Mac did, standing on the perimiter and playing hot potato with the basketball.
Video in question...there's some definite standing around going on, but imo, not like what Tracy was doing...not even close. Kobe was actually indirectly responsible for a few of the first buckets in the third via a swing pass out of a double team on the perimeter and a pass to a wide open Walton, who proceeds to miss a shot. Definitely some standing around though. To me, I think it would be fair to say he quit on the game a bit. But I just don't put it in the same category as Tracy's quitting. Kobe is upset that no one else on his team can score, that everytime the Suns get down the court they score or are fouled, etc, etc. He definitely should have been more aggressive, BUT I recall the Kobe led Lakers of those days often getting stuck Kobe-watching, teammates included. Phil didn't seem to upset with Kobe's performance in the second half. He should have been more aggressive. You could argue he "quit" to some degree. But as much of it was a combination of (1) half-time plan by Phil/Kobe to try and get the rest of the team involved (only possible way to win), and (2) frustration quitting. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/u8IGYkH--QI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/u8IGYkH--QI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> The T-Mac incident for comparison. Also consider this is after a bunch of T-Mac drama during the season. And finally consider Kobe is a much better player and competitor than T-Mac. He can, should and does get away with more. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TjbkXewxlGI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TjbkXewxlGI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> To be fair, I'm a Kobe hater, really. I hate his smugness, his punk attitude, etc. But this thread is in essence questioning his competitive spirit and desire to win...and there aren't many NBA'ers who I honestly believe want to win more than Kobe does.
I don't want to compare TMac with Kobe. But the OP has a point. People are just too forgiving of Kobe simply because he has had the fortune of playing on TWO dominant teams and won. In that second half, Kobe was not "trying to find another way for his team to get back in the game" as you put it. He was trying to prove a point against criticisms of him being too selfish. He was trying to show how the team was worse without him asserting himself. And he chose a game 7 to do it, albeit they were behind by a big margin. Sure, Kobe did not have relationship struggles with TWO different organizations... because he only played for ONE. So we can't really judge him on that. But boy, did he have relationship struggles with the only organization he's been with! OH yeah, not just once.
This thread is stupid. While Kobe has not been the best teammate in his career,what he did against Phoenix was about trying to get others involved(the gameplan) but getting no help from teammates. Tmac on the other hand, felt he wasnt getting enough touches(not the gameplan) and so he loafed and lollygagged down court. While you can make a weak argument that this somehow makes Kobe and Tmac similar lets look at where the differences are: Kobe doesnt have "injuries" during the holiday season every year... Kobe has never claimed that his first love is baseball or any other sport that he is not getting paid million$ for... Kobe has never complained that he doesn't feel like going to work because of personal(pms) issues... Kobe has never put the team through "maybe-I-will-or-maybe-I-wont-play-tonite" drama when he was injured... Kobe has never sat on the bench laughing in a 40 point elimination blowout... Kobe hasnt been kicked to the curb by 2 organizations and working on his third... Kobe has never showed up to camp out of shape... And most of all Kobe has never blown a 2-0 lead in the playoffs, 3 consecutive times. Despite all of that I guess you kinda have a point...
I'm not questioning his desire to win overall. I question his desire to win in that instance. In that instance, and a few isolated other ones, he put proving a point above winning. You can't discount how important a Game 7 is. That's a blemish and it's there to stay. I agree that there aren't too many guys that want to win more than Kobe. But I also agree with others that he has openly quit in some situations, and threw his team under the bus. As your post says, we just excuse him for it because he has actually won. T-Mac doesn't have that luxury. The reasons may be different and one guys competitive drive is clearly higher, but they both have quit on their resume.
Kobe vs Suns in 2006. The same season Kobe scored 81 points in a game. Kobe scored 40 and 50 points against the Suns that series. And took 1 shot, less than Chuck Hayes might do, in the 2nd half of game 7 of the playoffs. Everyone is saying well there's a "design" to it...yes there's a design. Leave the team out to dry. By doing that it takes QUITTING. Whats Phil Jackson going to do? If Jordan on the Bulls decided to just shoot 1 shot in a 2nd half, he's got the team by the balls. They're not going to take him out the game. (Keep in mind this is Skip Bayless...) http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/060508 So Lebron gets some vindication too with the heat he got about not shaking hands. (Though ironically the article tried to portray Lebron as the respectable nice guy).
Just for clarification, the Bynum video incident and trade demand didnt happen until the following summer in 2007 when they went out to Phoenix 4-1.
