Championship is a stretch, but I'd be fairly confident saying we would have made at least 1 Western Conference Finals...that being the 2006-2007 year the Jazz made it, by beating us on our home court in Game 7, then beating the upstart Warriors. Like the Jazz, I suspect we'd have lost to the Spurs in teh WCF, though. Then there's also last year. Replace T-Mac last year with Kobe and the team could have won a championship. First, you could argue less dependence on Yao means no injury. But that aside, they lost to the Lakers with Kobe so probably would have beaten them without. And they've always played the Nuggets decently, and the Magic for that matter.
Kobe wasn't a quitter for throwing the team under the bus. I did think it was funny that he fulfilled Ray Allens prediction, by basically not realizing how good he had it when he wanted to be número UNO. He was an ass for it but not a quitter. Now did he quit against Phoenix and Boston? The answer to that is a definite yes. But he won afterwards so it will be forgotten. It's similar to how no one calls Isiah a choker anymore (for that pass to Bird) since he won two titles later.
Everybody is missing the point. We will not win as long as Yao is a cornerstone. To me he is marketing money for Les. Which is not fair to us. Last year you don't take home court advantage and give it right back to somebody. For god sakes a superstar is fronted by somebody and is a non- factor. Just my opinion though.
I can't agree with that. I have never seen a Kobe team beat a team unless they were just as talented, or better. Every time Kobe squared off against a squad with just as much talent, he lost. Great player, but we have never seen him win with less, and that's the position that he woukd have been on with any of T-Macs teams except for the Rockets of last season, and I'm not gonna really count that one since T-Mac wasn't playing. Kobe is great and great when on top, or with an advantage. He hasn't won jack as an underdog. This is not a knock on his greatness, but we must recognize that if we are using hypotheticals of him on teams with less talent then their opponents. The Mavs and Jazz still have more talent than us in those playoffs with Kobe. After Bynum went down and pre Gasol gift, LA was losing. Yao fell and T-Mac still had us winning.
No Bob Sura. Mike james and David freaking Wesley running the point. That was are most talented team by far. Besides last year.
People were arguing whether Kobe or TMac was a better player just a few years ago, until TMac started going in and out of the lineup because of injuries. (Whether you think his injuries were real is another story.) So up until maybe 3 years ago, the two guys were about on the same level. So I wouldn't say Kobe could have done any better with TMac's teams. For the past 3 seasons, the only team that could have gone far was last year's. I am not sure how much Kobe could have done after Yao went down. Maybe we would have done a little better with Kobe against a Kobe led Lakers. Could we have beated them? Doubtful.
He did get a lot of criticism for that, but he went out and won the MVP the next year and then won a title the year after that. It's a results business. He has got results. If McGrady came back and somehow won an MVP, or a title then he would get plenty of accolades and the 2008-2009 season would be forgotten.
Look we're talking about Kobe quitting or not. What does their resume have to do with it? Kobe can quit but because he's a champion he's not quitting, he's just frustrated? WTF are you guys smoking? Kobe quit on his team. It was obvious. He didn't show up in the playoffs, he threw Bynum under the bus, he ripped his GM and team, and he demanded to be traded. How is that not quitting? Asking to be traded=QUITTING. Hello? Why would you want out if you hadn't given up on the team? The only difference is the Lakers set a lower standard than the Rockets fans and organization. The Lakers stood by him even when he underwent trial for rape, and no one said a word after the case was settled out of court(i.e. more or less admission of guilt). If they could stomach that then a player quitting (esp. when he more or less retracts it afterwards) is no big deal at all. On the other hand you have Clutch creating a post about how one single game forever cost Tmac's fanbase here in Houston. Compare that: quitting on a game versus quitting on your team AND being a sexual offender. Yet one is metaphorically stoned while the other is treated like a hero. It really just boils down to how high/low you set your standards for your players IMHO.
It is a results league and he is better, but that doesn't change the fact that when he was in T-Macs position (underdog with less talent) he was doing the same things....quitting, blowing 3-1 leads and blasting his team. How do you think Kobe would have reacted if he swapped with Bron all those years?
When Brandon Roy proclaimed putting Travis Outlaw on the bench and basically ordered Nicolas Batum into the starting lineup so he and Aldridge could get more touches, "Brandon Roy is such a LEADER! He's everything you want in a player!" With Andre Miller, an emerging Greg Oden, Rudy Fernandez, Martell Webster and Jerryd Bayless having to to fight for themselves the remaing 10 touches. Its all in how people want to shape a player's image. Some of a player's image is deserving. A lot of it is a bunch of subjective story line. Thats why sports talk exists though... Not that I care cuz Kobe has backed it up...being in the LA area while Kobe was putting on his act, it was NOT universally seen as him "making a point" even at home. He was about to be a Clipper. Kobe ran Shaq out of town. Then develops sense to ask for All Star players later? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that it was all a leverage scheme. Though if anything it ended up being egg in his own face.
It only took 14 posts before you felt like you had the green light to make your true comparison. Why didn't you just state up front this was a carry-over of more McGrady drama from the GARM?
I can't believe the hypocrisy. Tracy was frustrated with being unhealthy, being in pain, not being able to play at his best, but he is a quieter. Kobe was sick of losing and went to the media demanding a trade. He was unprofessional and immature. Just as bad as Tracy.
I remember watching Kobe's on court effort when the season in question started. He played extremely hard and left no doubt about his effort level. Whatever was going on off the court the guy never quit on the court.
You will never see Kobe quit on the court like Mcgrady. Some guys are too competitive to give in like that. In 2001 Kobe was fighting with Shaq, Phil Jackson, and everyone else on the team. No one liked him but he never quit, he just took a ton of shots and broke the offense. Kobe never quit in 2007 either. By contrast, Tmac quit on Toronto in his rookie year, Orlando the year before he was traded, and of course on the Rockets. It's ridiculous to compare the two. Give me Kobe any time over Tmac.
kobe did quit, but he had the luxury of playing for and winning mutiple championships earlier in his career. So it didn't matter. Plus like one poster said, next year he wins the mvp and after that a ring. So all is forgiven.
