No, I don't think you can make a decent case, or any case at all. AJ in 2004 under Capers: 71.4ypg AJ in 2006 under Kubiak and Carr: 71.7ypg AJ in 2007 under Kubiak and Schaub: 94.6ypg AJ in 2008 under Kubiak and Schaub: 98.4ypg Note: Skipped 2005 since that was a trainwreck of a season where you can't really judge anyone objectively. AJ became better after our horrible, horrible QB was gone and replaced by a competent one. This is quite debatable. Kevin Walter's receiving rank(yards) over the past 3 seasons: #66, #62, #95. Yes, I know the Texans target TEs and RBs a lot. But on the flip side, the Texans passing attack has ranked among the league best over this time too. With Schaub being a perfect QB for someone like Walter. And when the Texans needed Walter the most, he's shown to be a horrible #1 option. You honestly shouldn't be bringing up his Denver days. Denver's WR picks in the top 3 rounds during Kubiak's days: Lelie(1), Watts(2), Cole(3), McGriff(3), Nash(1). That's about as horrible a track record of drafting receiver as it gets. Look, the Texans haven't really spent a lot in the draft on receivers, and they haven't received much either. Which is the very definition of "no track record." Not sure why you're trying to debate that. If anything, Kubiak has a negative track record of receivers if you look at his OC days. So giving him a clean slate as a Texans HC is actually being kind to him.
Overall not impressed with Kubiak's track record picking wide receivers in Denver or Houston. However hard to say how much ultimate input in Denver and as the HC in Houston it has not been a high priority. Jones was ultimately underwhelming, but it isn't THAT bad, someone else will sign him and make him a rotation receiver. Even if Kubiak ultimately proves to be a poor judge of receivers, he is in the fine company of a HC in New England.
To be honest...we can have terrible receivers, but as long as we continue to have one of the best passing attacks in football, I'll be fine with a Clutchfan member lining up opposite Andre.
Ugh. That does not inspire much confidence when the time comes to find a replacement for Dre, assuming Kubiak is still around then. Might be better to go the FA route on that one.
This is absolutely true, of course. But even with Carr in 2006, AJ's receptions shot up to 103 in Kubiak's first year; 30 more than his 16-game average the previous 3 seasons. He was on a 106-catch pace in '07 and caught 115 and 101 the next two healthy seasons. It's not *all* David Carr. Last year, whether age or the lingering shoulder injury - Walter absolutely had a bad year. But in 2007, he finished 25th among WRs in receptions; 31st in 2008; 39th in 2009 (despite missing two games - his pace was actually 28th) and 41st in 2010. Given that every team starts 2 WRs and most routinely play three - for a former 7th round pick on his third team to rank among the top 32 twice and just miss it once due to injury... And to spend 4 years among the top 41 at his position, despite often being the 3rd, sometimes 4th option in the offense - I think it's hard to cast Walter as anything other than an unexpected success that absolutely developed under Kubiak. Irrelevant and meaningless. He's not a #1 talent. Akin to arguing "Kubiak doesn't develop QBs because Yates isn't as good as Brees." He wasn't drafting; I think we all know Shanahan pulled those strings. He obviously didn't develop them - but... if given a lump of crap... I honestly don't know a thing about those guys. But sometimes, guys simply can't be developed (like Jacoby). I notice none of them did much elsewhere so... likely there wasn't a lot to begin with. Your definition of no track record (which I'm ever-so slightly inclined to agree with) is not the same definition as the others in this thread, who think - mainly based on Jacoby Jones - that "no track record" means he can't do it.
Agree with most of post, but a number 2 receiver generally is expected to step up when number 1 is hurt or taken away by the defense. Walter could not do that last season. Expect he'll be better in 2012. I think it is obvious the Texans have looked to improve WR core as no one stepped up in AJ's absence to shoulder some of his load.
No, we can have bad receivers as long as have the best passing attack in football. Terrible is a whole nother level we haven't had to deal with in our offense for about two year back when we were starting Chris Brown. And our passing attack will stay as good, as long as Foster/Tate are carrying some of the weight along with Owen Daniel and whoever making catches as well from the TE position.
If #of receptions is your way of judging WRs, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. I personally think that, for example, gaining 1142 yards on 79 catches(14.5ypc) is better for the team than 1147 yards on 103 catches(11.1ypc). The former came in AJ's sophomore year. The latter in Kubiak's first season with Carr. Your use of receptions as a bar for WRs aside, if Kubiak is to be hailed as great for turning a 7th round pick into a servicable #2 receiver, then he should be flayed for turing a 3rd round pick into an absolute bust. He also has drafted several other receivers in the late rounds like Holiday who has turned out to be worthless. In the end, spending the money, effort, and time the Texans have done to end up with one capable #2 receiver over 5 years does not strike me as being great coaching. Not bad either. Basically mediocre. Plenty of receivers have put up stats as the best receiver on a team without having such talent. A QB can only throw to his best options. If his best option is a career #2, then he'll throw to that guy. Schaub chose to not throw to his receivers at all following AJ's demise, instead distributing Andre's touches among TEs and Foster. You can make whatever excuse you want, but I can guarantee a normal #2 receiver can at least somewhat take a good chunk of passes originally intended for a #1. This isn't a valid excuse. In a front office where the coach basically calls the shots on drafts, they'll rightfully get blamed if a player turns out to not be NFL-worthy. It was up to the Texans to judge if Jacoby is coachable on draft day. They judged wrong. I see no one saying this. I simply see people using a wait-and-see attitude. To counter this, I'm certain Texans fans are more upbeat on the potential of Brooks/Jones, since the Texans have shown to know OL talent.
There are, of course, many ways to evaluate a WR. My point here - underscored by his increase in receptions - is that Kubiak took our best asset and designed a scheme that put the ball in his hands far more often. Let’s nip this in the bud – I never used the term, “great” and never would. They didn’t “turn out’ to be worthless: they *are* worthless. It happens. A lot. This kind of goes back to my original point – they really haven’t spent a lot of money, effort or time on the WRs because, with Andre, they really haven’t had to. He didn’t “choose” to do that – that’s the way this offense is designed. Since Schaub came here in 2007, the second-leading receiver every single year (save for 2008) has been a TE or RB. Since 2007, the RB/TE have combined for 120, 88, 104 and 88 receptions. As I’ve argued with the senseless Jacoby pillorying – “WR2” (and “WR3”) in *this* offense means far less than it does in most offenses. WR1, RB, TE1 are always higher priorities. And often – TE2 and FB are, as well. That’s not a knock on the receivers: it’s how Kubiak has designed it. Oh, good Lord. If FOs had the level of in/foresight you’re demanding here, there’d never be any draft busts. Then you’re not looking. The post directly after your first response to me: And then in direct response to you: And those are just two I picked lazily. The thread is filled with a general attitude of, “Since JJ was a failure, Kubiak is a failure.”
I am worried about Kubiak's ability to draft and/or develop receivers. Our WR coach came in with Kubiak, I assume. Might be time for some new blood.
From reading his bio; I really like that coach. I think all of our WR's have been well coached, its just that most haven't been as talented.
